It’s solid turret atmot would still not make it a glass cannon though.
Calling it weakly armored is one thing, but calling it a glass cannon is pretty insulting to other tanks in the BR range.
Ironic is that the BVM is the opposite. Abrams is strong turret but incredibly weak hull, bvm is strong hull with incredibly weak turret.
In some cases it should be just that, in order to prevent powercreep.
M1s aren’t the worst tanks in the game by any means, so them getting buffs first just because a larger pool of people moaned about them isn’t fair.
Remember when M1s received their reload buff to 5s ?
That made tanks like Arietes or Challengers completely redundant, as their reload speed was the only thing they relied upon in order to stay at those BRs.
It’s not about “buffs” or “nerfs”; this isn’t World of Warcraft or Clash Royale.
It’s about authenticity and historical accuracy, always factoring balance in, of course- but balance should be done AROUND authentic vehicles, instead of vehicles being artificially castrated “to balance them out” against other castrated vehicles.
Everything would be far more balanced if there weren’t artificial nerfs anywhere to be found. Tanks are artificially nerfed to be balanced out against other artificially nerfed tanks… if you removed all artificial nerfs from them, things would be way more balanced for everyone.
Jack,
That turret placard is a GREAT source… Does the hull have a placard just like that? If so, is it possible for anyone to get/find a picture of the hull placard for both a SEPV3 and a SEPV2 model?
That would be the slam dunk we need.
And if this is information possible for anyone to find, we need this BEFORE Gaijin’s press release on what they’re doing with the SEPV3
Wait they rejected hte big report???
It’s something which annoys me, they’ve for a while just C&Pd rounds across, so like the Ariete is slinging DM53 which, it should have the CL14 etc etc whatever the round is as it’s best round.
they just blanket add munitions to tanks to justify them at a BR they don’t belong, like the ariete ain’t a top tier tank.
Leclerc after it’s recent nerfs is definitely struggling (at least in my experience) at 12.7 as well, VS the likes of Abrams and such.
We’re all in the same boat man DW, THe BVM though does have the 10.7 turret at 12.7 xD
That there lies the issue isn’t it, weve got tansk with artificial reloads, rounds they didn’t use, wrong armour values.
It is starting ot be more and more about WoW nerfs and buffs than historical (at least mostly historical) accuracy.
Which sucks
Everyone bar one tech tree id say…
What really annoys me personally about that is just the dishonesty and instransparency from Gaijin in that regard. I think most of us want a balanced game above all so if they need artificial nerfs/buffs for that its not the end of the world imo but this eternal blocking of very well sourced and written bug reports for questionable reasons is so disrespectful towards the people making them when at the same time we have stuff like the KH38MT or 8 LMUR Mi28NMs in the game. I really dont understand whats so hard about a simple “hey thank you very much for your report its definitely worth considering but implementing it would be extremely unhealthy for game balance rn but we will look at it if balance allows it.” Sure it would be ahistorical as well and annoying for history/realism fans but at least there would be some clarity and transparency instead of this eternal tug of war between people with a passion for military vehicles and cheeto dust covered bug report managers.
ALSO, the turret placard for the SEPV2 would be useful for us as well!!! For the purpose of proving Gaijin’s claim (all the weight went to the turret) wrong and cross check weight calculations
Well it did. The hull underneath the beak is a 2A4(C) hull armor. And there WAS A BACKLASH against it, we even had TrickZZter appear on the forum to get flak for it, and Gaijin ultimately ignored it.
We’re kind of tired Gaijin ignoring this atp, so we’re preparing to make a new report, now with docs that directly give both the armor type used in the 2A5 development (and yes, it actually includes the TYPES OF LAYERS USED, meaning it spells it out for Gaijin on how they should model the new armor), and the level of protection it achieved, thankfully, the docs are now over 30 years old, so they can be safely used :) (at least that’s what I’ve been told)
But if it works, the turrets for all Leopard 2s past the 2A4, may reach 650mm RHAe KE at +/- 30 degrees without the add-on, with it, they should safely reach about 950mm’ish KE at a head-on angle of attack.
Lets see if I become a Gaijin statistic just like Fear_Naught_ did back in the day.
Well, but at least they made it (C) tech instead of (B), and factored in the MEXAS package, so, despite the internal armor nerf, it still reaches 670mm KE that is still immune to any shell in the game.
Therefore, while the nerf is bad, at least it’s not the “355mm KE 1979 levels of protection” they are trying to push into the 2020s SEPv3.
Basically, Leopard 2A7V/HU currently has the armor that early 2000s uparmored Leopards had; Leopard 2E, Leopard 2A6HEL, etc… they are missing the INTERNAL 2010s armor upgrades that, if I recall correctly, should have improved the hull by around 100mm KE, which would put them at around 770mm KE in total.
Don’t take Fear_Naught_ as a reference, though! He used blatantly sped-up footage to try to give the Challenger 2s an artificial turret traverse speed buff, doing a lot of harm to the credibility of those with legitimate concerns of the tank :').
You can’t say so, or you’ll get a “not a bug”/“not enough info” even there.
And they would still reject because 1) data not true because I say so 2) they don’t accept classified datas for report.
No. They have the armor of the 1989 pre-prototype.
they are missing the INTERNAL 2010s armor upgrades that, if I recall correctly, should have improved the hull by around 100mm KE, which would put them at around 770mm KE in total.
They are missing the internal armor upgrade, and the add-on was nerfed so that they conform to a 1989 armor specification that was reliant on a 1979 internal armor package.
Currently, the beak on the 2A7V/HU is worse than the one on the Strv 122 i.e 2019 & 2021 variants have worse add-on modifiers than a 1996 variant.
I mean, it has C hull + MEXAS. That’s pretty much what Leopard 2E, Leopard 2A6HEL, etc, were equipped with.
Gaijin claims that “the Swedish package is stronger”, which I don’t know where it comes from, but neither do I know of a solid refutal, so I don’t enter that topic xD
On the other hand, just going off by logic, the Strv 122s’ add-on has a KE multiplier well beyond 1xRHA, so I find that to be odd. If anything, the Swedish ones would be overperforming rather than 2A7s’ underperforming, and it should be the 122s with 670mm KE and the 2A7s with 770mm KE with the upgraded internal armor.
This all looks amazing on paper, but in reality you can’t really force Gaijin to change their whole system on a whim, so asking for a M829A4 on the M1 because it’s a “glass cannon” is just counter productive and won’t fix anything.
?
Swedish trials outright state C-tech + MEXAS-H - > 750mm RHAe KE, please at least do me the courtesy of checking what you’re talking about.
I mean, it has C hull + MEXAS. That’s pretty much what Leopard 2E, Leopard 2A6HEL, etc, were equipped with.
Which is nerfed… you’re not really garnering support from German players when you go “oh but at least…” when the point is neither tank is even properly armored and both are nerfed… it just makes us think it’s a rat-race.
Consistently inconsistent is how they are mate.
You ever see what happened to legwolf with the British ERA protection levels for STANAG and stuff like that?
dude literally proved it with sources and calculus etc and they just denied it xD
They shouldn’t of been added KH38MT at all and LMURs should be as their equals.
I mean the answers self explanitory at this stage isn’t it.
They just don’t want to balance it properly.
As I said myself two lines above,
So, please… stop being a dick if I’m not the Godess of Absolute Leopard Knowledge. I try to know as much as I can about all MBTs that have existed since the 1980s, so yeah, a detail or two may go over my head once in a while when it comes to a specific variant of a specific model and that’s why I’m the first one to express insecurity about my own statements when I am uncertain of something.
What I find funny is that German players asking for their 670mm KE immunity to become a 800mm KE immunity is fine (being immune isn’t enough, gotta be immune-pro-max), but the moment American players ask for their miserable glass 355mm KE to be improved into somewhat-workable 600-ish mm KE, then there’s suddenly a big drama.
What? The only thing I said here was “X is also incorrect, you’re wrong”, at no point did I say or insinuate there needs to be a drama because US players want a certain thing. Ya need to chill out with the victim complex, you seem to always default to it whenever you’re not 100% right.
So, please… stop being a dick
Yeah there’s no point in talking to you it seems.
Godess of Absolute Leopard Knowledge.
But I am, so from a woman to a woman, please get your act together.
Yeah and the reason provided so so lackluster and plain wrong, im so dissapointed with gaijin right now