What you assume people are talking about isn’t always correct. This is why I don’t like to talk about “Aircraft can always do X” because you’re not always fighting players on a similar skill level. With this in mind it’s easier to talk about the Aircraft’s capabilities and not the pilot themselves. With that being said the game has enough variables that virtually anything is possible. The LF Mk IX is not an invincible air frame and is easily countered by numerous 5.7, 6.0 and 6.3 aircraft, there are even some 5.0 and 5.3s that can kill the LF Mk IX if played correctly. Nothing you have said in this thread has proven otherwise. There are not only aircraft that are faster but also aircraft that can turn tighter than the LF Mk IX from 5.0 to 6.3. The LF Mk IX has an advantage in lower altitude climb rate over almost everything except for a handful of aircraft that often start from a higher perspective. You have failed to prove that the LF Mk IX is anything but a good 5.7 aircraft.
A7M1, A6M5, A couple different variations of Yak-9, the P-59, the P-47, the 109K-4. Ta-152 are all capable of easily exploiting the weaknesses of the LF Mk IX and destroying it. It’s not an invincible machine.
These are all either
1)more maneuverable but significantly slower.
2)much less maneuverable but slightly faster.
1 can be beaten by getting out vertical’d
2 can run but can never transform speed into vertical advantage. They are not fast enough
Lf9 hits sweet spot of speed vs turning and climb. On top of it has higher tech level due to 25 lbs boost. And is very optimized for 1v1 digfight without excessive fuel, armour or weapons
Sounds like it fits right in if the aircraft manages to mix a perfect blend of all 5.7 aircraft without actively making it too much of a significant advantage to make it unfair.
But the good news is that in most cases you won’t have a 1v1 dogfight so this point is ultimately moot. All game modes have a dozen planes on each side making it unlikely that a 1v1 is going to occur very often.
There’s plenty of undertiered and overtiered planes in this game but the LF Mk IX is far from being either. It can be a hassle to fight due to it having good all around performance but it’s not an issue for anyone who knows their own aircraft and how to destroy an LF Mk IX.
It’s different from the other 5,7 because it can defeat everyone else and has an answer to any opponent.
The opposite isn’t true sometimes you feel you have no answer to an lf9.
So it’s a little special.
But you’ve just stated that all of the aircraft I listed had some sort of advantage over the LF Mk IX whether it be speed or maneuverability. You can’t have both counters and also no counters. There’s ways to beat the LF Mk IX, just because the aircraft isn’t rolling over and dying for you doesn’t mean that it’s impossible. I’ve played everything from 109s to A6Ms and never thought that the LF Mk IX was a truly overpowered vehicle. All 5.7s have an answer to other 5.7s. But the difference being the LF Mk IX has more than one answer due to it being a jack of all trades fighter. If you’re a 109 you stay fast and high, if you’re a A6M you exploit your opponent’s inability to maneuver as well, in the LF Mk IX you choose the playstyle for the right situation, this also applies to other aircraft like the Yak and Ki-84 series of vehicle, the LF Mk IX isn’t special, it’s just sharing the same playstyle that a lot of other vehicles have.
I just find in the LFMk9 that most of my kills come from people just giving me free kills. Anyone who actually knows what they are doing will give me a tough time. The LFmK9 is pretty average, With the exception of the climb rate. Which is pretty decent compared to most spitfires.
Like this:
Id hate it any higher, especially 6.3 as OP is calling for because it would just face a wall of jets and be dead pretty quick. As it is there are something at 5.7/6.0 that I can never fight in them like some of the soviet Yaks
Im sure with a decompression things could move about a bit and would help.
For this reason and many others, I think the matchmaker spread of 1.0 +/- is a huge contributor to most of the balance problems in this game. If it was changed to 0.7 instead I think we would see a significant amount of pressure relieved from the game. Across all game modes this issue is a plague and has been ever since 2013. The good news is that these days you can’t even use queue times as an excuse because the game is only growing in players.
Yeah, that is certainly one solution for it. And probably the simplest.
Lets break this down from my perspective as a LF mk9 Spitfire player (though I play the Plagis not the TT). I will say I dont play a huge amount at that BR, especially in ARB. But I do enjoy the odd match.
I’m gunna break this down looking at the core aspects for prop aircraft
- Speed
- Turn time/handling
- Climb Rate
- Firepower
- Survivability
All data taken from wiki
Speed
This is the simplest and easiest to challenge straight away.
LF mk9 = 690 kph
F4U-4B = 697 kph
BF 109 K-4 = 720 kph
N1K2-J = 650 kph
Yak-3U = 695 kph
So even with this fairly limited set of aircraft to pick from. Its top speed is fairly average for its BR. In fact its not even the fastest Spitfire at its BR. With the Spitfire Mk18e hitting 718 kph. nearly 30 kph higher than the Mk9 at the exact same BR.
It also worth noting that the Spitfire kinda suffers from overly enthusatic automatic radiator controls. To even come close to reaching the LF mk9’s top speed, you will need to use MEC, as the radiators make great airbrakes. I will be honest, I cant comment on other aircraft, this may be true for many. But it is nonetheless, worth mentioning.
Turn rate/Handling
I could at this point do what i’ve done above with top speeds. but im lazy, its a spitfire. They all pretty much out-turn everything, with the exception of a few here and there. Like the Zeroes. If you are trying to turn fight any Spitfire in something like an FW-190 low and slow, you just deserve to be killed.
All Spitfires (except the Mk16 with the clipped wings) turn nearly identically. The LF mk9 is not special in this regard.
Climb Rate
This is the one true strength of the LF mk9s. They have exceptionally good climb rate and do out climb a lot of other aircraft at and around their BR. Even beating the later Griffon Spitifres in climb rate. This is a fact I wont dispute…
but
The LF mk9, like a lot of Spitfires, do suffer a bit at alt. The higher you climb, the worse your turn rate and overall performance. So whilst you can get above a lot of things, if you are up really high, somethings might start out turning you, if nothing else, they’ll certainly be able to out accelerate you and maintain a higher speed. This is why most spits tend to stick lower to the ground and drag people to wasting their energy and becoming easy prey in a low speed turn fight.
Firepower
I will be honest, I havent played much of the Spitfires with 2x 50 cals + 2x Hispanos recently. All of my experience is in the Plagis which still uses 4x 303 and 2x Hispanos. So its difficult to say how much this actually affects combat/my opinion in this area. But in my experiences. The Hispanos are doing most of the damage. They do hit hard. When they want to. They can be a little hit and miss at times. But they are the same 20mm Hispanos used all the way back on the MkVb’s at 3.7. Just with more ammo. I dont think they are overpeforming, but instead the damage models are underperforming, meaning they deal the right amount of damage, but its having a greater affect than it should.
But this is not unique to the Spitfire. All but I think the German MG 151s are about equal in this respect, as they may not be on realshatter (though my information may be out of date). So this good firepower is not unqiue to the Spitifre. In fact they have it harder than most with wing moutned guns vs the nose mounted of most. Much harder to land consistant hits, Especially at longer ranges.
it is also worth noting the Spitfire has quite limited ammo. It is very easy to run out of ammo in a protracted fight.
Survivability
This is one area the Spitifre does suffer in. Its actually not that tanky. Light hits to the wings can have quite large impacts on turn performance and the engine being water cooled can be very easily crippled. A few good rounds and now you will be in major risk of your engine dying if you dont nurse it back to the Airfield. Doable, but only if you know how and ideally are using MEC. but not possible in a Turn fight. Many other aircraft at that BR are radially cooled. and thus can soak a lot more abuse before being negatively affected.
Overall, if the Spitfire gets hit, it will be lucky to survive unscathed.
Conclusion
LF mk9 might need to go to 6.0 due to its climb rate. But overall I think they are perfectly fine at their current BR. They are good, there is no doubting that. But they are not “unstoppable”. They simply get kills because people do stupid things like trying to rate fight at low alt and loosing pretty quick. There are certainly other aircraft that probably need to go down as well, that the Mk9 encounters often, but thats the Mk9s fault. The BR is rather compressed, with jets not actually that far above it.
If the Mk9 did move to 6.3, it would face a wall of Jets. Which the Mk24 can have a hard time dealing with usually. The Mk9 would be truly DOA at that BR.
Spits were somewhat more balanced as Hispanos did less damage. For many years Hispanos were kind of poor guns and inferior to 151 and similar ones. This balanced the OP FM Spits always had. Since Hispanos were changed to godmode, these planes just have no downsides anymore.
Have the MG 151s even been given realshatter yet?
Dunno, my main issues are the lower ROF and the massive drag nerf. It doesn’t connect as it used to all the years before. 151 devolved into a pure close range shotgun. When I see how 20mm mineshells fall out of the sky even at medium range, I always start to cry (and switch to my P-47^^).
Yeah, the 151 hits probably the hardest bar Shvaks and their soviet wizardry out of any of the 20mm cannons. the 151s velocity is still good for 20mm Cannons and isnt difficult to aim in my experience.
Hispanos and MG 151s have comperable fire rates by all accounts. The rounds being draggy is a pain i know from the 30mm ADENs, but if thats accurate not a lot to be done. though accuracy can always be buffed.
But if the rounds arent on RealShatter, then that will explain if they are doing less damage. But back when RealShitter was in full affect. And the only way to deal damage in a Spitfire was pilot sniping or dumping dozens of AP rounds into the target. That was not fun or fair even slightly. Maybe what we have now is too far in the other direction. But my god, please never again give the Spitfires blanks
Statcard top speeds are not a good indicator of how practically fast a plane is in this game. What matters more is what altitude it is fast at. Drag races at 5 km altitude just never happen. What is a far better indicator of true speed is the sea level top speed indicated here. At sea level the LF suffers while planes like the 4B and 3U excel. All spitfires suffer in terms of speed at sea level, the 6.7 Mk.24 is as fast as a 5.7 3U on the deck.
Thank you
while the spitfire lf mk9 is slow as a plane it is still faster than the 109 k4 and the p51d30 at sea level. Adding to the fact it doesn’t care about energy traps it makes it alongside the yak3u the best props in the game.
my overall performance has increased significantly in this year. That’s why I have high KD’s and KB’s on objectively bad aircraft like the sea fury (3.4), the N1K2J (4.5) and the VB10-1 (4) as well as a healthy 3.5 overall kill death ratio.
That is just factually untrue if you actually test it or just look at documents for sea level top speed.