The Spitfire LF Mk9 is unstoppable and needs to go to 6.3

[SnOwCoNe_III]

Okay first of all. What are you even saying?

The Spitfire LF Mk9 going to 6.3? What? If anything I barely see people use that version as much, and when I do they are used by pretty skilled pilots who know what they are doing, so I have no clue why it should be move to 6.3 which in my opinion is such a overkill.

@Mantis_Religiosa

it has insane climb rate, great top speed below 6km of altitude

That the majority of the Spitfires are, good climb rate and good top speed and a pretty decent turn-rate.

@Mantis_Religiosa

and has devastating armament.

Devastating isn’t really a word I would describe the hispano in a nutshell. And I’m gonna quote someone from this: When it works, it really works. But when it doesn’t work, It really doesn’t work.

@Mantis_Religiosa

It’s in other words a super prop that also has higher-br-worthy armament like gaijin does with aircraft variants that go a whole BR up because they trade machine guns for cannons in exchange of worse performance,

So that also means move planes like say for an example the Ki-61-I Hei to a higher BR Because it trades its wing mounted 50.Cals for 2 MG 151 20 mm. So should that go up to a higher BR despite it having a not-so great top speed?

@Mantis_Religiosa

at 5.0 being way better than the f8f-1b to the point it can easily out dogfight a yak3 in every scenario outside a flat rate fight;

I have seen the F8F-1B Do pretty well, of course I ain’t saying the B version is better but they both have their own strengths that benefits both. Also I have never once seen a F8F-1 Or a F8F-1B try to dogfight a Yak-3P. Speaking of it…

@Mantis_Religiosa

and the f8f 1b being heavier and waddling around while is unable to have a balance between compressing into oblivion or losing all the energy; or the yak3 and the yak3p

Perfect Segway into it. A smart Bearcat player would know very well not to engage a Yak-3 or Yak-3P or any Yak for that matter since they are most likely to lose in a dog-fight out right.

@Mantis_Religiosa

“but spitfires are fragile”! Nope, the griffon spitfires are fragile, the lf mk9 can take punishment while any scratch will deem the griffon red tag brown.

What on earth are you even talking about at this point?

@Mantis_Religiosa

yea, fr it’s me hi, i’m the problem it’s me

I’m gonna assume you only played one match with the thing and just say its too OP.
If that is the case then I’m sorry to say this: That’s not how that works. If anything do 5 or 10 Matches in that thing and then you will see that it isn’t as OP that you make it seem to be.

@Mantis_Religiosa

Have you flown the n1k after new power? It’s literally one of the slowest rank 4 props

That how most Japanese planes are from rank II all the way to Rank IV Well most of them.
They focus on more on energy maneuvering then speed. With some exceptions.

@Mantis_Religiosa

the n1k would brick wall at 545ias even after a dive, regardless the prop pitch it would not outpace the lf mk9 in any way. Let’s not forget… that the n1k gets out fought by the f8f-1b.

This just proves my point above: They are not design on speed out right. They were design based on maneuverability.

@Mantis_Religiosa

of which the spitfire vastly outclimbs and outdogfights.

My guy I have seen planes that can outclimb & out dogfight a Spitfire.

@Mantis_Religiosa

Do you still fail to remember that the only thing that can kill a yak3u isolatedly is a spitfire lf mk9?

You do realize that there are other planes that can a Yak-3U via different means of doing so right?

@Mantis_Religiosa

Cool, why don’t people apply the same for the f-5e? but wait, the f-5e has 10.0 performance with 10.0 armament at 10.7

Okay? I barely see people complain about the F-5E that’s not to say I haven’t seen it I have.
But it does pretty well at 10.7. I have no clue what you are to assume that the F-5E Doesn’t do well at 10.7.

@Mantis_Religiosa

who else stays at high altitude? matches are too short for high altitude boom and zoomers to even reach higher than you before the match is over.

There is a reason why they are short: They did it because they wanted games to be much quicker and have faster queuing times. Though I’m not 100% Sure on this one.

That is all i’m gonna say but this is just my opinion on the whole matter. If you still think its too OP then I ain’t gonna stop you for thinking that. But that just my honest opinion on the whole thing.

[Spychicken]

The LF Mk.9 is far too slow at reasonable combat altitudes to warrant 6.3. The reason a plane like the Yak-3U is so good is because its low alt speed is also very good. It only manages 585 kph on the deck and that’s if you have your radiators completely closed. It’s close enough to the german fighters in speed but a lot of the 6.0+ US planes are going to be effectively ~100 kph faster than you.

Then again, the G.56 is 6.3 while being slower and with worse sustained turn rate so at least the LF Mk. 9 won’t be worse than that.

[Lyn_poster]

Spitfire is fine at its br but what should go up is the I-185 (M-71) playing it at 6.0 doesn’t even feel like a handicap

[Foxy406]

dude the spitfire lf mk9 is fine where its at, at this point this is a literal skill issue, I am sorry its the truth.

[kimpromo2]

I like how you can tell which plane Mantis died to today by his forum history.

[Max_Damage]

@Mantis_Religiosa

But still, the spitfire lf mk9 is the best prop in the game. I

Agree the best dogfighter

[Max_Damage]

People got used to it 🥲

[Max_Damage]

Best 5.7 at least
But impossible to justify 6.3

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

“Y-yeah but these other aircraft can’t turn as-”

LITERALLY the drama with the F-5E. People cry about it being turny and having energy retention despite it can barely catch a su7b flying at 2km of altitude, the spitfire is turny, has energy retention and can catch up 90 percent of the planes

Yeah that wasn’t the point of your statement, you’re essentially saying X has more horsepower when Y when they both have 500 but then saying well X also has Z. It’s still a moot point because all the aircraft can retain similar energy. If you were trying to say that the spitfire can turn better than a P-38 then you would be correct but that doesn’t invalidate my statement.

it does not invalidate your statement because your statement was already invalid. The Spitfire is a jack of all trades master of climb and turn. If you compress, go up and avoid flying straight.

Not only are you using the aircraft at sea level where it was not designed to fight (unlike the LF Mk IX, hence the LF designation) but these aircraft are also designed for range while maintaining a high top speed at altitude. This is still true.

woooow the n1k is so fast at high altitude!!! the spitfire lf mk9 will never catch it up in an air rb match!!

I don’t know what the F-5E has to do with any of this but the Spitfire’s Armament isn’t a 5.7 or a 6.0 armament. The armament of .50 caliber machine guns mixed with 20mm can be seen as low as 3.7. The LF Mk IX’s armament is effectively weaker than the XP-55’s due to it’s wing placement and not being centerlined in the nose.

the f-5e has to do a lot here because it has the same hype as the zero when it was introduced. It has literally no armament for a 10.7 aircraft, no performance for a 10.7 aircraft and just the ability to compress into oblivion called “energy retention” and the ability to clock 29 degrees of turn rate at 800 ias at 5 minutes of fuel, speeds at which nobody stays in air RB past 10.0.

You have a tendency to go on rants that don’t have anything to do with the discussion at hand, you often resort to whataboutism and dismissing points while bringing up irrelevant or inane data.

What points am I dismissing? “Skill issue”? How Skill issue if I’m better at such plane I cry about than the guy laughing at me? Irrelevant? How is a sensible comparison irrelevant?

The F-5E is a well balanced aircraft at 10.7 with the ability to catch 10.7 aircraft and kill 10.7 aircraft, I don’t really see a correlation to this discussion though.

The ability to what? 💀 thing literally struggles at catching up the J7E which is way slower than the rest of 11.0-10.0 aircraft and already spanks the f5e in one circle, rate fight and vertical. How does it “kill 10.7 aircraft” if these 10.7 aircraft can literally not engage and then force one circle fights? The jet dogfight meta is always one circle or scissors because you are trying to cut off the enemy from escaping, the f-5e is not a good one circle fighter, the f-5c IS and that’s why the C does better at 11.3 dogfights than the E against anything that is not a su25. And yet it will struggle with the ones that present themselves as free kills because m39 and vulcan early deal the least damage out of any 20mm cannon in the entire game. Vulcan pogs because of fire volume, not because the shells actually do any damage. I pick AP-T and aim to the cockpit and works best.

If this is true why did I kill a lone Yak-3U with my Do 335B-2?

Because yak3u is a popular aircraft and as such it gets lower stats for most people being average in it?

Did you play more than one game in the LF Mk IX today?

Yes I did, and this morning too. All of them were 3 kills 1 assist/4 kills 1 assist in 7v7. An enraged f4u killed me even despite I saved it from a g55.

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

then mantis plays four matches in it and scores 3 kill + assist first place games and an ace plus because I’m right and need the source to disprove your points.

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

it only manages what? Dude the yak3u’s wings start to flutter at sea level, it very well reaches 660 in the deck.

The G56 is overtiered, i agree, but so are many aircraft like the j5n1 and “cult only” rarities that you see only once in every 20 matches.

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

quack me doggles!!! yes the i185-71 is what the sea fury can only dream of being lol.

[SnOwCoNe_III]

Well, at least you did prove that you did more then just 1 match. But I still don’t think the Spitfire LF Mk 9 should go to 6.3.

[BlitzKrieger1]

F Mk IX and Mk Ia are probably undertiered but much less so.

[BlitzKrieger1]

The short answer is I sort of agree with you, but a lot of your reasons dont make a lot of sense.

has devastating armament

Hispanos are pretty strong right now, but by no means the LF Mk IXs armament out of the ordinary for 5.7. Besides, I dont think armament should be considered a very strong factor when determining whether a plane is overtiered. Flight performance matters much, much more, at least when we are talking about skilled pilots.

@Mantis_Religiosa

to the point it can easily out dogfight a yak3 in every scenario outside a flat rate fight

The sustained turnrate of the LF Mk IX is 27 degrees/s, the sustained turnrate of the Yak-3 (4.3 version) is 22.7 deg/s. The LF IX handily beats the Yak-3 in a flat rate fight aswell as in every other type of dogfight. As for the Yak-3U, that does a little better at 24.3 deg/s. ie, it will still get outrated by the LF Mk IX. The Yak-3U has superior energy retention and a slightly better climb rate and so can compete if the dogfight is taken somewhat into the vertical.

@Mantis_Religiosa

we have n1k’s at 6.0 which on average won’t win any dogfight if the enemy has a single synapse active.

N1K at 6.0 is overtiered, this is pretty well understood, still, it can win dogfighs for sure.

@Mantis_Religiosa

he lf mk9 can take punishment while any scratc

Similar to the armament conversation, construction strength doesnt really account for that much, since a good player will not get hit very often. You need to be focusing on flight performance.

@Mantis_Religiosa

hing is faster than many other thing

The LF Mk IX has a top speed on the deck of 585 km/h. This is slightly below average for 5.7, although the LF Mk IX is faster than most people give it credit for.

What you really need to be considering is the climb rate. The LF Mk IX is one of the top 5 best props in terms of maximum rate of energy gain (specific excess power). Only the Yak-3U, Hornet Mk.III, Ki-83 are flat out better, and the Yak-3 VK-107 is about equal. Once you get up to altitude (5km+), more planes (I-225, P-38K…) will also beat it. Nevertheless, it is still an extremely impressive climber, beating things like the P-51H and F2G (this might be a contentious claim for some, I am happy to provide extra detail or evidence.)

So in short, you have a pretty unparalleled dogfighter which climbs excellently and can catch some enemies. Yes, the top speed and energy retention limit this thing from being truly very effective, but it still is a massive pain in the ass and extremely braindead (this is the plane I fly if i come home absolutely hammered and want a couple wt games). To the people telling him to cope: Yes, in the team setting it limited due to the speed and the high speed retention, but it is so dangerous to get close to this plane with anything like energy-equality that I think an increase in BR is warranted.

Remember that the Re 2005, which is just objectively worse (more than 50km/h slower on the deck) is at 6.0. The LF Mk IX would fare much much better than the Re 2005, and that thing isnt thaaaat bad (Yes it sort of is, but you know what im saying)

6.3 is too far however, and the LF Mk IX is not by any means broken or uncounterable, it is just a very competitive, very braindead plane to fly and it would be better for the balance of the game to have it at 6.0 than 5.7.

[CMOT4356]

Can we all agree to ignore mantis cause he is always complaining about his skill issue and how he thinks its everything else’s fault and never his and that he never actually knows what he is talking about.

[ArclightExpress]

it does not invalidate your statement because your statement was already invalid. The Spitfire is a jack of all trades master of climb and turn. If you compress, go up and avoid flying straight.

I accept your concession on the Spitfire being a jack of all trades fighter and not being well versed in diving or speed.

the spitfire lf mk9 will never catch it up in an air rb match!!

Weird considering I played the N1K in 5 different matches yesterday and ended up managing 9 kills with no deaths, one of the kills being an LF Mk IX. I’d say the N1K could be 5.7 too but it’s honestly pretty good where it is.

It has literally no armament for a 10.7 aircraft, no performance for a 10.7 aircraft

Honestly this is just entirely wrong, with two good AIM-9s, radar guided 20mm guns and the ability to cut into almost anything it could almost be 11.0. It’s an excellent airframe.

thing literally struggles at catching up the J7E

wtf my light tactical fighter can’t catch an interceptor in a straight line this is virtually unplayable! (Meanwhile it easy manages to catch anything if you play the aircraft right)

The rest of your points are entirely moot because it’s nothing but gibberish which doesn’t even coorelate to this topic. I’m not going to engage further on the F-5E topic because this topic pertains to the LF Mk IX which is rightfully at 5.7 and doesn’t require any change in BR.

Because yak3u is a popular aircraft and as such it gets lower stats for most people being average in it?

Guess your point about a lone Yak-3U being undeadable is just entirely wrong then huh?

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

we’re talking from a perspective where everyone is clever enough to not die like a paid actor and put a fight instead.

[Morvran]

@ArclightExpress

could almost be 11.0. It’s an excellent airframe.

It was until earlier this year. No idea why they moved it down. I think just so it stopped seeing 12.0s

[Max_Damage]

@ArclightExpress

Ditto. The LF Mk IX has dozens of counters

There’s no other 5.7 that can 1v1 an lf9