They explained this by saying that it is not very efficient to model a functional cockpit when only SIM mode is suitable for cockpit use.
Gaijin prefers only player shooting, i.e. minimal support systems for players…
What you are suggesting is roughly modeled in an arcade - a ring of overhang when shooting…
Got it wrong way around, Gaijin actually gave Air RB high-tier jets historical radar gun lead in the Sky Guardians -update, but the community backlash forced them to remove it.
PLEASE structure your stuff better. It’s incredibly hard to read with every word being capitalised and so little other structure.
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AH3 has something like this that seems to work petty well. You can switch between planes without delay and fire either guns in all bombers or guns from a single bomber.
Maybe it wouldn’t be bad if Gaijin included a bombing target for a group of planes in air battles on a few maps…
I mean a factory or refinery, which would require several planes to destroy…
It’s often a race to see who can bomb the bomb base first…
Maybe this way the bomber players would learn to fly in formation, they would get their SL and it would involve some cooperation from airspawn, through bombing the target, to returning and another group raid at a lower altitude…
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Sad situation of bombers:
G8N1s are actively hunting fighters. Every 2nd match I’m getting chased by one. Last 2 matches: in 1 I sprayed heavily and landed several hits, dude then got shot by 3 other players, KILLED 2 other players before finally dying.
2nd match: G8N1 turns into me while flying almost co-alt. I have good speed so I turn into it, I get hit from 950m away and get my plane ripped to pieces.
G8N1 acting as fighters is currently a norm. They outrange and outgun fighters. Germans need 20-30 20mm or 5-7 30mm on target. Most 30mm on German planes are MK108s that have effective range of 700m.
If you get within 700m of G8N1 you’re dead.
That thing is also FAST.
Gunner effectiveness when used properly is ridiculous, thanks to 3-plane stabilisation and perfect synchronisation.
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Agreed.
A guy questioned the planned BR increase to 6.3:
Regarding this:
Not sure about 20 mm mine shells, but 3 x 30 mm are not enough.
I recently managed to score 3 hits (30 mm mine shells) on a GN8 (frontal attack from below with very high speed in 262 A-2a). A crit and 2 hits and ofc he survived the attack and managed to land and repair.
I asked the pilot in the match regarding his damage; allegedly all 3 hits were in the tail section and large parts of rudder and one stabilizer was gone - fantastic. At least i was fast enough to avoid getting hit by his return fire.
Tu-2s: Several 50 mm HE hits with 262 A-1/U4:
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My biggest issue is - with standard German/Italian armanent you simply have no way of facing aggressive G8N1 and be able to reliably survive.
You have to build up position for several minutes, and yet you may still get bonked by cannons.
You engage - you die.
You don’t engage - you’ll never catch him while he’s in space and at high alt his chances to snipe you are even better IMO.
If we take into account Germany/Italy lacks proper attackers at that BR (Ta-152H, Bf 109 K4, He-162, Re.2005 and G.56 are horrible at killing armored targets and bad vs light pillboxes, though Italians are still a lot better, Ta-152C3 is OK, but it’s a pain to fly), and often have to resort to kill’em all victory condition - this is not good.
I hate the fact that I have to roll dices and have no way of actually reliably winning while flying an interceptor vs a bomber who is NOT EVEN CONCERNED with his own safety.
With its horrible bombload its the only thing it has got going for it, it’s also hilarious and extremely unbalanced in Sim lol
gaijin simply hate bombers
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I have mixed feelings about this.
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On one hand i understand your passion for winning (or the need to kill bombers in case of irrecoverable ticket deficits) - on the other hand it is not bad for the game itself when bombers can fight back.
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As i am aware of your “fighters are primary targets” approach i understand your frustration, but from my pov there are way too many fighter pilots in the game who are unable fight vs enemy fighters and see bombers as free SL/RP provider.
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So in order to force them to learn that there is no free lunch it is not bad that they pay the price for unprepared attacks.
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It gets critical when bombers have way better chances to kill a fighter than vice versa - and even well prepared attacks by veteran pilots are a kind of Russian Roulette.
From a pure technical pov G8Ns are no threat to a fighter, their bombload kills one base at best (max ~ 300 tickets), the plane suffers from a ridiculously low wing overload of ~ 3 g and the plane is not fast enough to catch a fighter.
Regarding armament:
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Imho your point of weapon effectiveness just proves that gaijin is not consistent as basically everything they did in the last 5 years was aimed to render (heavy) prop bombers useless and somehow we still see death stars popping out of nowhere.
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I mean i scored direct hits with R4Ms on B-29 wings without even a crit or on the right engine of a Su-11 (severe damage) and those guys managed to rtb.
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So together with the limited range of the once feared mine shells it looks like you are fully right with your general assessment that German/Italian pilots have some severe disadvantages in this game.
I am just wondering why i see no German bomber mains complaining about the low damage output of their 20 mm defensive turrets. If you watch replays you see their shells exploding around fighters without producing damage - and usually He 177s are the first victims of “aggressively” flown G8Ns.
Some years ago we saw B-17s & B-29s farmed by Ju 288s - all they had to do was to place themselves in front and below them an gun them down with their 20 mm turret…
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This is a decent solution but I think 3 bombers COULD be overbearing. Especially trying to play against heavy bombers like a B-29 or a Tu-4, they would feel practically untouchable, with insane amounts of fire being spat at you it would feel impossible to do anything to them. But I could see the formation thing working IF they implement it a little bit differently than you proposed.
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Nowadays Ju-288 has absolutely god awful ballistics which to some extent fixes the problem.
Meanwhile Type 99 Mk 2 fires very heavy shell with excellent drag coefficicient.
My problem is the random factor of it all.
With fighters you can fsirly reliably dodge and predict what’s going to happen.
Yeah in gaming some random factor is inevitable.
But god damn, ever since Type 99 Mk 2 started hitting like a 30mm IRL, I don’t like the odds, as setup takes so much time and yet you can still just die by getting anywhere inside 1,5 km (sometimes 2km) tracer-less death bubble, so from way outside effective gun range. I can’t really hit with MK103 at duch distances.
I have to count on being luckg and not get hit even once.
Last time I killed G8N vs a relatively good player who was low and and slow because he was ground pounding, while I was going 670km/h in a slight dive! His gunner ran out of ammo in the critical moments, thus allowing me.to land 30mm to his tail and wingtip along with large amount of 20mm shells without dying.
Look how many factors played to my big advantage, yet I only survived because I got stupid-lucky.
Had his gunner fired 15 less shells per barfel at ground targets, I’d get lit the hell up.
And mind you, I was running from that G8N1 all game, I ended up losing on tickete maybe I played it too safe at one point or another, but the thing is - I’m flying an interceptor and running for my life from bombers and I’m not even talking about Hitman-level players. I’m talking about 51% WR guys with some brains. I may even win 7 out of 10 against them, but in these 3 cases they’ll fly towards me at an angle and smoke me from 1000m away before I even have a chance to land anyrhing. But I statistically win 5 out of 6 vs your average fighter/attacker user.
The way G8N works is just simply unfair. You can’t kill him in a safe way outside of sniping him from 1600m away using 50mm cannon mounted on a goddamn jet, too bad you get no tracers to adjust your fire, because Gaijin decided so due to “reasons”, so the jet ended up at ridiculously low BR and still doesn’t probably perform well, haha.
That’s imho the main point of gaijin’s way of thinking - increase random factors in order to eliminate skill advantages of veteran players in order to lower entry barriers for fresh (and eager to invest money) young players.
I mean they have to earn money, but these RNG factors hurt long term players way more than new players. And the more and better you play the more likely it becomes that you meet battle hardened enemies sitting in those overperforming aircraft.
When the Be-6 came out it was very common to see them ending battles with 5 kills as they got swarmed by A6M5s like moths around a lantern and got smoked at will.
And all of a sudden nobody flew them anymore. So i expect that sooner or later we see “adjustments” like with the Ju 288s aimed to reduce their battle impact without revealing them publicly.
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Sometimes I wonder what the air battles actually looked like, between a flying squadron of bombers, a fighter cover and an attack group of enemy fighters…
Only with the help of film, it is possible to see a simulation of only a few of these battles, as far as medium or heavy bombers are concerned…
Battle Of Britain, Memphis Belle, Tuskegee Airmen, Lords of the Skies…
What is visible right away…
- attack from an elevation or from the side, or frontal attack at high speed, when there are only a few seconds to aim and shoot
- no long sitting at 6 o’clock, attack/aiming/shooting/disengaging from the target in a few seconds…
Another thing is the game, a few observations, from the many things that affect the game…
- you can find a lot of videos of a squadron flying only B-17s over Europe vs. German fighters, there used to be an event for this…
- there are interesting duels between bombers at altitude, 1 vs 1, if there are willing and capable players in the game…
- another thing is that players research modules and… go to another machine, while they have a fully researched plane, but the superstructure disappears, why continue playing with this plane… once it was at least one or two more camouflages that the player could get in addition, then they switched to the stock exchange system …
- game settings for the effectiveness of weapons and the effectiveness of ammunition belts… etc…
Sometimes it’s good to play in ARB, on low tiers (He-111), where the loss of SL doesn’t hurt so much, to play a bomber and turn off all markers, HUD … you have a third-person view, but you don’t know who is where, who is friend/enemy, where the bases are, etc… a completely different character of the game … but it’s how who wants…
I saw an interesting video on YouTube, this guy makes videos based on historical events, I found this video interesting, in the game it would probably end up being quite clear…
I don’t understand. German and Italian planes are the ones which have superior armament. The MG151 and MK103 cannons shred anything they come across. G8N1 shouldn’t be punished because some skilled players managed to score some hits.
These days are long gone. Ballistic nerf, RS 3.0 & since June last year SD mechanics which severely affect the range of MG 151s and MK 108 require that you have to close in to min 700 meters to score hits.
All other 20 mm hit reliably up to 1.3-1.4 km, hit imho way harder and are way easier to aim due to way better ballistics. If i had an option to exchange the 20 mm for a 15 mm MG 151/15 i would switch instantly. They have no SD (= self destruct) mechanic, way better ballistics and hit quite hard.
I recommend to play some rounds in a German/ Italian 6.0/6.3 prop and try to kill a G8N with a minimum level of awareness - you might change your mind.
Imho nobody here asked for a punishment of the G8N.
It is also not a problem of “some hits” - the Type 99 Mod 2 kills jets and most props with 1 or 2 hits.
Even gaijin has noticed that the G8Ns performs way too well for their taste, that’s why they will increase the BR to 6.3 and i predicted some stealth nerfs - gaijin has the habit to do both almost simultaneously as soon as any bomber becomes too successful.
Have a good one!
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Even if G8Ns are actively hunting fighters, not everyone is doing this. Players who are good at this will keep doing it regardless of BR, while 6.3 will deincentivize newer players not to use it. Even the Tu-4 is way too high (8.0).
Bomber players (which isn’t really me) have complained about flimsy damage models for years so I find it strange that there are those who say they are too strong.
Both players and Gaijin should just realize that attacking bombers is inherently dangerous, as it was irl
Meta strategic bombers, B29/Tu-4, it’s quite interesting with them…
- Standard B-29 with onboard weapons is in the game.
- Nuclear bomb carrier, B-29 aka Silverplate was significantly affected by modifications (somewhere it is written that it had only a rear gun turret, somewhere that it was completely devoid of gun positions, it was much faster).
- B-29D (aka B-50) probably used in Korea, had 60% more powerful engines, higher rudder and stronger armor…
The first 3 Tu-4s had 12.7 mm UBK machine guns, the others already got 23 mm cannons…
There were a huge number of Tu-4 versions, but it is worth mentioning the Tu-4 with powerful turboprop engines and anti-ship aircraft (it is written that there was a possibility of using them against ground targets) missiles KS1 Komet…
It is necessary to recall the significant Chinese modifications that were used until 1988, the probable assumption of ECM systems, etc…
So if Gaijin ever decides to develop post-war strategic bombers, it could be interesting…