I did:
Cause Namer 30 is obviously superior to BMP-2M, despite bugs with overpressure and F&F code.
And KF-41 is superior to Namer 30 due to speed increase.
KF-41 is a good 10.7 despite its APS bugs, and despite only really having Ariete P to back it up for primary anti-tank.
Bugs don’t prevent tanks from staying at their BR.
Your argument would’ve had BMP-2M drop to 9.7 due to its now fixed grenade ammunition explosion bug.
It wouldnt, as theyre is no rason for the bmp to move down even if there is a better tank at the same br.
It is not, you trade mobility for a increase in protection and survivality.
It is not a good 10.7 in any measure, the only thing that makes it stay there is literally the italians players themselfs.
I dont get how you manage to have the worst takes possible regarding this game, it feels like all you do is just play a tank in test drive and base your opinion on it that way. Not only are you wrong since RPM matters massively especially for IFVs but youre so wrong that at this point i genuinely dont know if youre doing this on purpose or youre just so disconnected from how the game works that you persuaded yourself that youre right.
Feels weird i have to explain something so basic but alright:
High RPM matters incredibly much because with low caliber darts the round might not break an important component such as a barrel or breach in single shot, the more darts you can throw at a tank before it has either reloaded or has turned its barrel at you the greater your chance of survival.
200RPM is way too slow to be able to reliably do so, quite often the barrel might only go yellow or orange before the enemy tank is able to kill you. Since you lack armor compared to tanks, you have to be able to cripple the enemy tank in time, otherwise you instantly die.
The BMP is able to do so with a 30mm gun because of the high firerate, hell i even bring the Type 87 RCV into 12.0 games and the reason why it can survive even when undertiered is because of how quickly it can damage the barrel.
I agree, the APS hardly works, its very fragile alltogether, it has spikes but also the same problem as puma where your main armament doesnt do enough damage. It should go to 10.3 and honestly it would do completely fine there.
You still die to a dart going through the tank, you can still very easily die to helicopters or planes, it is by no metric OP at 10.3 and spouting some random shit about how “its got APS and is so quick therefore it shouldnt go to 10.3 because then BMP2M needs to go to 9.7 because you cant have a cake and eat it” is a bloody nonsense
@kedrigern
When new, rate of fire can bridge the gap a little for lethality.
However, this is 10.0… and a squadron vehicle. ~3 months to get.
When you’ve honed skills, the maximum rate of fire can be a handicap if it’s too fast, blinding you to what you’re shooting.
It’s why I’ve never shot at 2S38’s maximum fire rate against tanks.
It’s why my recent use of Begleit I haven’t shot at its maximum fire rate.
Muzzle flash blinds, and reduces accuracy.
Higher volume is only useful when we are less skilled, and it’s still not as good as better aim.
Cause 200rpm is not slow, otherwise the auto-lights are worse than they’ve been for me.
I don’t shoot barrels… why would I? I either flank or avoid, barrel shots are the easiest shots to screw up…
Better lethality to play the IFVs and auto-lights in their intended roles.
Oh, and my takes aren’t mine… they’re the takes of militaries and real crewman; all I’ve done is accept they’re correct and learn how to use the equipment correctly to the best of my ability.
Pal i got over 3k hours in this gods forsaken game, im not new by any metric
Why would this matter? it doesnt.
“while you were off partying, i was studying the way of the sword…” literally the same shit, not only are you wrong because the entire point of a high firerate gun is that its way more lethal over slow firing ones (holy shit who would guess that a lot more bullets is better than lot less bullets)
Also, you can always burst fire a quick firing gun.
Let me in on a little secret, wanna know who also gets blinded when you shoot at them with a high firerate gun? THE ENEMY
Have you ever considered, that you can also be “skilled” and use a high firerate autogun, i know right, probably blew your mind with that one.
The BMP shoots 1.75x quicker than the PUMA or other 30mm chainguns, it is slower by every single definition of the word given that were literally comparing the two vehicles.
So not only have you completely missed the point that flanking isnt always the option (hell its less and less possible since maps get smaller and smaller), not can you avoid a tank that is in front of you. Good to know.
I shudder to think that you genuinely believe all the stuff you said without even putting an ounce of thinking behind it.
Yet a BMP-2M firing full force has yet to blind my Abrams, Leopard 2, ZTZ96, etc.
They however missed my turret ring entirely cause they blinded themselves, and got shot back instantly.
If speed >300rpm mattered as much as you claim it does, crews would be demanding it, and companies would be offering it.
If you see footage of BMPs, they use their reduced rate of fire mode too. Not even BMP crews agree with you.
Also, you can put thinking into this at any time, but your highest performance IFV is Type 89: 200 rounds per minute.
Your stats are disagreeing with your words, and you have BMP-2 and BMP-3 as well.
ho my god, ill let you in on a little secret, i bring the BMP3 to higher BRs instead of 9.0 and the BMP2 (not the 2M, the regular one) sucks utter balls due to APDS and its Kornet that dips.
If you bring up footage of IRL BMPs i will genuinely laugh at you because you are thinking that that means anything in an arcade game.
As for my Type 89 stats, that thing is at a 9.0 BR for japan that sees downtiers to 8.0 on the regular, ofcourse its gonna be strong.
Also highest performance means literally nothing lol, i barely play 9.0 anymore unless im helping a friend with the grind, the most played light tanks/IFVs are 2s38, PUMA and bradley. like lmao
Please, stop talking about things you seem to have no clue because multiple people have come in and literally said youre wrong with explanations so you either have to be supremely confident in what you say or youre talking out of your ass thinking you know better.
@kedrigern
Keep claiming real life crews, militaries, and manufacturers are wrong.
Certainly if you continue your argument of conjecture it’ll be true one day… /s
Your claims about what you bring where isn’t provable thus irrelevant.
I bring all my IFVs at their BR exclusively, not provable, but that’s the rule to use.
Also I’m not playing arcade battles, this topic isn’t about arcade battles, and you’re not playing arcade battles so there was no reason for you to bring that up.
The fact you keep attributing the opinions of crewman as my own is an insult to people serving their countries.
1- Real life crews, militaries, and manufacturers say it’s wrong to praise such high fire rates.
2- Your stats betrayed you.
Cause unlike you, I researched this to become a better player.
It made me a better player too cause I went from negative KDR in auto-lights to above average all by listening to the experts: Crewmen and good players that coincidentally also use a bit of real life IFV doctrine.
you do realize that the “realistic” part of warthunder is not realistic at all, its an arcade game lol, not a sim.
You mean just like real life praised the Hellcat over the Zero, yet in-game it’s a complete 180?
War Thunder isn’t real life, where a 30mm dart hits a crewmember or ammunition charge and they turn orange.
Exactly. You can’t always face enemies side on, since you’re just going to run into someone else flanking. There are no rules saying only LTs can flank.
How? It literally blinds you unless you have really good eyesight/the ability to focus beyond the smoke/particles.
Until you suddenly find yourself within 300m on flat ground, at which point your spikes instantly become useless.
If you are using your gun depression it get’s even worse, because than your spikes are useless within 400-500m.
Yes, but it seems that even MUSS 1.0 can actually do more than it is presented in the game. And not just because the Jammer should actually automatically turn in the direction of the approaching missile.
“The MUSS sensors are completely passive at all times and when the MUSS IR jammer head is operating, the radiation emitted by the latter is unobservable both in the visible and IR spectrum. The jammer of current generation MUSS is proven to be effective against optically tracked wire-guided, jam resistant 2nd and 3rd generation (those guided by IR seeker) missiles, laser target designated (LDT) guided munitions and laser range finder threats.”
As you can see, MUSS 1.0 should also effect Laser tageted ammunitions and laser range finders. Furthermore the IR Laser shouldn’t be seeable with night vision optics.
Furthermore I found in the wikipedia articel about Stugna (laser beam riding missile with origin in Ukraine) that the first generation of this atgm series was negatively affected by russian Shtora-1, which is by the way one or two decades older then MUSS 1.0. So if that is true, I personally would expect that MUSS 1.0 is also effective against older generation laser beam riding missiles, although maybe with a lower success rate
Man you just hit it right. I play the Puma often but it’s to weak at 10.0 because most of the time you get Uptiers anyway to 11.0.
Just played a game where i hit 3 seconds a T90A from the Side, litteraly 90 degrees and it did nothing. T90A turned his turret and killed me.
Puma should go to 9.3, even the Begleitpanzer is better at 11.0 Games because you have HE VT, ATGM (Not the best one, but still a ATGM), the 57mm has more Pen than the Puma and it’s even faster than the Puma. The Survivability is the same as the Puma - One shot death.
do you have giant turnd on your head that us broken since day one? MUSS stanbds for MUSS take a giant crap on that remote truet. Not for active protection.
I agree with some things you said, like the survivability not being that good and the lack of frontal killing ability. But having played the puma, I think it’s not that bad. Fun to play? no. still playable? yes. I even managed to get nukes in this thing, but only rarely. I honestly think that if we get working AHEAD rounds and fix the tracks breaking when you get ammo racked, it can stay at 10.0. Otherwise it’s better if its moved to around 9.3 or 9.7 where it can actually have a proper lineup
Begliet has worse armour but the armament is way better, also wtf is this post, are you on crack?