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Dude, what grind ? You dont even manage to have a positive stat after 700 battles with a vehicle…
It has always been 10.7.
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btw, the KF-41 is supposed to be immune to 30mm APDS or possibly even 30mm APFSDS, and the Puma is even more protected irl (weighs more than a damn T-72)
so blame gayjin
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Well it isnt…
Yeah, Gaijin artificially made the puma way worse than it is IRL and gave it a far too high br too.
The AHEAD ammo still barely works, the missile jammer is still not as effective as it is irl and much more.
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Off of the Wiki, because it’s a pain to switch between War Thunder and a browser (plus I don’t want my laptop to overheat rip).
I mean I did say the Namer 30, Vilkas, and Freccia should go to 10.0, but that decision isn’t based on where the KF41 is in comparison to them. The KF41’s autocannon and Spikes don’t really warrant 10.7, and separately the autocannons, mobility, and Spikes of the Freccia and Namer don’t warrant 10.3. The Vilkas could probably move down from 10.3 as well, depending on if its mobility doesn’t reflect its high HP/ton.
No? I used the BMP-2M and 2S38 as the metrics to move the vehicles around.
I wasn’t really making that a factor when comparing the PUMA and BMP-2M, though. I didn’t say that, to be fair, but it wasn’t something I was really using to balance as the difference between the two HP/ton metrics isn’t that much.
The issue is if KF-41 moves to 10.3, Namer, Vilkas, and Freccia have to move to 10.0; and if Namer moves to 10.0, BMP-2M and M3A3 have to move to at least 9.7.
I not only disagree but also completely dont understand the basis of your logic for “if X moves down then Y has to as well”… No, no it does not. BMP2M is in my personal opinion already undertiered given that it has access to high firerate gun with apfsds and IRST locking capability AND has access to beam-riding tandem missiles that can not only be fired on the move but also can be fired one after another.
And regarding the bradley, if i had been asked about the M3A3 bradley pre-SeeknDestroy update about its BR id say its honestly good at 10.0. Its not survivable by any metric but you atleast had the TOW2Bs that flew well. However since gaijin has decided to make any and all SACLOS missiles handle completely unrealistically (A FUCKING TOW DOESNT DIP AND HIT THE GROUND AS IF IT WOULD WEIGH 2 TONS AFTER GOING OUT OF THE TUBE GAIJIN) the bradley could in all honesty go down to 9.7 and not much would change.
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Beam riding is a flaw just like wire guided.
Gaijin fixed the unrealistic movement of all missiles in 2023, and fixed the unrealistic movement of TOW-2Bs recently as well.
TOW-2Bs don’t dip into the ground and I don’t think they ever did.
Also you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
If M3A3 and BMP-2M are 0.7 apart in technology, then KF-41 is 1.3 BRs superior to BMP-2M… which would make it 11.7 in your preferred setup.
M3A3 is fine at 10.0.
You can argue about BMP-2M being under-BR’d, SPIKEs even in their current state are better than beam riding.
They are not, even tow 2 b are more reliable and consistent.
This sentence makes no logical sense.
Also, I tested the Spikes, 9M133, and a SACLOS missile (the QN201DD) and overall the 9M133s are still better. The Spikes cannot be used under 310m, they have a 50% chance of doing no damage, and about a quarter of the time they just straight up miss; the SACLOS missile I tested still dips into the ground hard and was essentially impossible to use within ~250m without having to do extremely annoying mouse flicks; the 9M133 was hard to use sometimes if the terrain got wonky, but any time it connected it was a kill - no exceptions.
Wtf are you saying? The M3A3 deserving a lower BR than the BMP-2M due to the BMP-2M having better missiles, a much faster fire rate, and tracking makes sense. The KF-41 having arguably worse missiles, a worse gun overall (a slight bit more pen but less than half the fire rate), but similar characteristics otherwise means the KF-41 should probably the same BR as the BMP-2M - not 1.3 BR higher.
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TOW maneuverability is fine:
More maneuverable than BMP-2M’s tandem due to being a slower speed:
Prove to all of us that BMP-2M has armor, SPIKE missiles, elevated aiming and weapon positions, 21% more pen on its APFSDS, and so on and so forth.
BMP-2M is not as good as Russia probably claims it is.
Neither has armor.
Again spikes are by far a worse missiles, saying otherwise just shows ignorance in your behalf, as not only have an erratic lock, but also a low penetation, low speed and low explosive mass.
You do have elevated aiming with the bmp2…
You have a 175% more fire rate
Again youre grossly overstimating the spikes actual capabilities in the game.
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First person I see claiming that a slower ATGM is somehow better
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Cause it’s still 329 meter per second.
Maneuverability of missile matters more than the speed at such speeds.
@Nowel
Fire rate at above 200 only matters in propaganda.
Nope, turret exposed.
And KF-41 has a hardkill APS with a minimum armor of 150mm around the hull.
Sure… things only matters when you said so because it fits your narrative… it does matter.
You have a comander sights, as high as the one on the kf 41, so your statement that it does not have “elevated view” is completely false.
You can get killed even if the aps activates…
They hull have 60 mm of protection, and the turret has just 30 mm.
And you also dont have a missile that can pen and overpressure almost all vehicles in game from the front and you also twice the ammo and 2 extra missiles ready to use, that can be used at all ranges not just over 300m.
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You defend BMP-2M with such passion but cite the dangest things.
“Ifs” and “It’s still faster than 210 rounds per minute.” neither of which are arguements.
And SPIKE has pen cause it’s a top attack missile rather than direct fire.
Besides an accuracy buff to all F&F missiles; and overpressure needing work [which also impacts BMP-2’s missiles], SPIKE is better because you can fire from behind cover.
ATGMs are for long range shots to begin with.
You are the one traying to shove down the bmp2 to try ad make it even better, dont try to shift the narrative here buddy, the bmp2m in anycase should go up.
Have you ever used the spike?, almost all shot will land somwere in the frontal arc of the tank where it’sweak penetration and inexistent loft will hit in really shallow angles. Clearely you have no idea about how are they model in the game.
They are not. You can use they at pretty much all ranges, the spikes are the only ones with this artificial limitation due to being fixed in place
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Buddy just claiming that anything above 200rpm does t make a difference, is not an argument either is just a statement, which is false btw as being able to kill somene faster is an objective advantage, which is also relevant when you want to kill airplanes,
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@Nowel
What are you talking about? I don’t want BMP-2M reduced in BR, I’ve been saying that this entire topic.
Also fragging someone in 0.7 seconds instead of 1 second is diminishing returns.
Except sometimes it takes far longer than a second to frag an enemy and there does make a difference, btw you will kill it in less .5s not 0.7s, again it shoots well over twice as fast.
You did say that if the kf 41 goes down it needs to go to 9.7 without any reason whatsoever, when the kf 41 is a tanks that is objectively over tiered and underperforming compared to the bmp2m which is clearely overperforming compared to its peers at 10.0