The Pantsir SM-SV is Simply Too Strong, Russian Bias as Clear as Day

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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1045

Gaijin have broken the game now though it was teetering on the edge of yes we can play around these systems now we cannot.

HARMS wont change that and we will see massive queue times at top tier because frankly no one wants to face this. Whomever Russia is partnered with now will in all likelihood win the game.
CAS is the great “balancer” team losing boom 6 dead tanks balance shifted. Now one side has a tool that says I can shoot down every piece of ordinance in the sky, I can make my team immune to CAS.

You break the balance, BMP-T has ruined lower BRs, Pantsir SV, Kh-38 and LMUR has ruined top tier.

If we do get bigger maps Gaijin will just give Russia an S-300 or 400 "Pantsir is the worst sam…give them S-300

1 Like
1046

Well, you’ve also just indirectly implied that CAS also breaks the balance because everyone else can’t intercept the munition spam CAS can pull off. Which doesn’t mean the 1 nation that can do it is the problem, that just means CAS is the problem.

But CAS is only a problem because of map design limiting anti-airs to what they can do.

1047

I understand the frusturation beind this, but that is quite far fetched granted that everyone just looked at the BUKS stats and said “it’s the best on paper”. while the IRIST preformed way better.

So it’s not like there wasn’t a genuine reason. And I’m sure they know we need bigger maps to solve a lot of issues, but if players are going to be so stuck up their asses about keeping maps small. Then what’s the point in those same people asking for anti-radiation weapons. Like why are we even aking for more CAS abilities when the maps are the limiting factor. There’s a bigger picture to all of this.

1048

CAS has always been broken, from a PE8 dropping a massive bomb and killing 5-7 tanks. Or a bomb laden P-47, CAS has always been a game changing/winning weapon. But these dumb bombs gave you a chance, the pilot might miss, they might get shot down or damaged by a 50 cal.

Now though 20km+ FnF missiles they break the game and even with IRIS-T SLM you can still get the kills by flying well. New Pantsir SV essentially says sure you can drop 10 SPICE bombs, I will shoot them down, 16 JAGM missiles no sweat.

It breaks game balance, because Russia and their allies do not have to deal with this system and it’s obscene ability to just shut off CAS for everyone else.

As for the BUK…The BUK is great if you use the AESA system on the launchers, it was never a bad system just poor player and instead of learning how to use it and the nuances like other nations need to do they cried on the forums to Daddy Gaijin who in turn added THE DUMBEST thing they could in the game to please Russians.

48 missiles this system can have 48 missiles and that is one vehicle, if in some crazy world the player is AFK and dies they can spawn a BUK or the standard Pantsir S1…There is no justification for this system in game.

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1049

FnF helis would be a problem even with better map design, but yes, the maps are a major factor when it comes to why CAS is such a big problem

Gaijin pushed CAS capabilities way too far

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1050

Even with bigger maps, they would still be able to do this. So it begs the question if Russia isn’t allowed to have these systems because of “game balance” yet other nations get newer and newer SAM systems because they have nothing to make up for Russia having specialized systems…?

That’s ultimately asking for a handicap because someone decided to go a different route in weapon design. And it wouldn’t make sense to do that if Gaijin is trying to push for more and more modern inceptions being added.

1051

The playerbase asks for these CAS capibilties so idk. As much as the playerbase shunts on Gaijin, they don’t even have their own priorities straight.

More CAS toys on smaller maps, yet don’t want bigger maps, and then still asking for more advanced toys because they think more advanced toys will somehow magically make a Pantsir radar not be able to detect anything.

Or no wait- because it’s game breaking that someone else is to temporarily mute the game breaking issue. …?

1052

Well then we start to allow NATO to have advantages, which currently buddy they have none.
Excluding the 2A7 variant every other vehicle in game and the meta at top tier Russia has is superior.
Lets give NATO the ammo they use and not rounds from decades ago while Russia is using it’s in service round? Surely it’s not fair that NATO tanks don’t just bounce Russian rounds?
Give NATO Stanag rated armour for the sides so they are immune to Russian 30mm? CR2 TES should be immune to 30mm Autocannon fire…It is not.

As for one nations design ethos that is fine so give NATO MMW seekers, give NATO the EW systems they have developed and used to devastating effect on Russian/Soviet SAM systems. Give NATO a chance.

Because right now they have none

1053

Which we have been saying since they added the first top tier helis and they had 16 missiles…
Some games like BF balance aircraft by limiting their payloads, Gaijin nah go and destroy the whole loby

1 Like
1054

Russias in service round is nothing special, all top rounds don’t have any capibilites modeled as of current. So I don’t see what this point brings tot he table.

As for the rest, that all sounds well and great, but electronic warfare only really works when it’s at long range. Again, all maps are a clusterfuck, your EW isn’t gonna work if you’re in line of sight at 20kms.

All what you’re asking for is basically what DCS has acomplished because their maps are expansive.

1055

So where are the counterparts for any other nation?

CAP as in an Air To Air loaded Aircraft, with no A2G stores. So it would have a limited use against non-aircraft.

No, Other nations have their counterpart systems substituted for less performant ones, or willfully undermodeled, with no seeming efforts to correct obviously erroneous modeling and then turn around and try to cover for it with absolute bullshit.

Unless you are able to fly constantly below 1.5 meters this isn’t an issue if multipathing was modeled based on known data, but it isn’t for fairness.

The entire reason for CAS existing as a thing is that Ground maps aren’t fair, and that by design it is possible to lock down a map by holding a few power positions. CAS’s role is to prevent a match from becoming static. Similar to Arty’s God’s eye view in WoT.

So then where is the distinction between Contrast & Correlation seekers, MITL guidance, LOAL, or MMW seekers, or Submuntion dispensers. There are a ton of Things that Gaijin have omitted for Game balance. Why not exercise it in this case as a gaming convention in order to better preserve balance?

1056

Maps are an issue but better game modes also, the game is way past the limits of what it can support. Top tier is fundamentally broken due to the sheer complexity of the modern systems we have now. We need better maps, more complex game modes and better gameplay mechanics that can compliment these systems. I don’t know why Gaijin is dead set on making this a mediocre arena shooter with all the equipment and weaponry we have in the game.

1057

We have rounds with Anti ERA not modelled for balance, we have rounds in NATO service that do not burn or explode not modelled, German PUMA rounds burn more than the Russian 30mm rounds on the BMP-T, despite being designed to not burn or cook off.

I am not even going into how US/NATO doctrine demands they can engage and destroy a tank from 3-4km away. I would bet heavily on M829A3 just ripping right through a T-90M slapped in Relikt.

We could have limited EW even scrambling the TWS on Pantsir and other SAMS could be enough. I do not expect we will ever see EW in the game.

Not trying to pile on you, but this addition has caused great frustration we are already at nearly a 1000 replies and the update dropped last week.

1058

Remind me them and name them off. (Not antagonizing, just asking so I can run through them)

Well, if I remember correctly, there was a whole meltdown about how Stingers were powerful before they were nerfed, so I don’t know if that viewpoint has shifted since then, seeing how people are now asking for corrections for whatever nerfs were instated on it.

You make a great point, but granted this wouldn’t change this vehicles capibility to intercept it, these weapons only provide a higher probability for the target to be hit. So what you introduce is more opressive weaponry against other nations that only increase the already high hit probability. That doesn’t really change the fact nobody has anything as effecient as the Pantsir.

It’s come to a point where “preserving balance” in the most modern day of trinkets and weaponry will be next to impossible. If NATO gets Anti ERA rounds, am I supposed to immitaedly say Russia needs rounds that are of equivalent nature? No they don’t have “Anti-ERA rounds” those rounds are special purpose by NATO for a very specific nation(s) and threat they present. It works the same way in the Pantsirs case.

but of course everyone facing Russia is going to say they need it and there should be no equivalent for Russia. Which there really isn’t besides darts being more optimized against NERA arrays.

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1059

I think all balance conscious players have been saying that CAS is getting out of hand, but sadly there always are people thinking it would be fun to have CAS with weapons that can just wipe the entire battlefield in a single swoop

I think the only thing that could kind of help at this point is Gaijin buffing SHORAD systems and adding the couple CIWS that Blufor nations could get

But then again, we have a bunch of players acting like CAS HAS to be OP “it costs so much after all!!!1!”, so we probably will see even more busted weapons as a result -.-

4 Likes
1060

Pretty sure M29A3 was for Kontakt 5 and the suggested A4 version was for Relikt. Well A4 is classified.

a4 is heavily classified, along with Dm53, so assuming those capibilities is wishful thinking in part of Dm53

1061

DCS players at that rate with CAS loadouts

Which again, wouldn’t be that big of an issue if the game presented maybe more PVE aspects, or bigger open maps that would balance out CAS and helis-- not balance. Actually justify the reasoning for having all that weaponry

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1062

i never said u’re full of BS, but that u’re ignorant saying russian tanks are good cuz “they have armor and decent mobility” when it’s 99% skill issue armor + 1% mobility.
NATO has way better armored tanks, no matter how much u yap against that argument, u just can’t compare a single-use piece of crap with an 800mm block of steel covering ur turret cheek.

NATO has way better mobile tanks, i could even say that Leopard 2A7V is faster than T-80BVM even when the BVM has higher top speed and it’s like 20 tons lighter.

as i said (and many people too), the only good things Russia has is CAS and SPAA, everything else sucks. their MBTs are absolute trash compared to anything in the battlefield, and the only decent/good/OP tank they have is BMPT thx to it’s amazing survivability + weapons.

maybe cuz most NATO mains are braindead? when i play Leopard 2A4M and reach the enemy spawn i just go and spawn camp them.
when i play T-72B3 and reach the enemy spawn i just go and spawn camp them.
it’s their problem for not deciding to spawn camp, when there’s plenty of maps that allow u to spawn camp the enemy with almost zero risk of dying.

did i say Pantsir SM-SV was somehow what Russia deserved? they already had good/amazing SPAAs with just a few defects (Pantsir-S1: meh radar + meh mobility / BUK-M3: non-erect launcher + easily multipath’able).

btw they’re hypersonic missiles, Mach 6.

USA has amazing tanks and one of the 2nd/3rd best helicopters ingame.
btw u can’t force me to do something, and if i need good stats in USA when u admitted u aren’t the best player, that would basically mean u want me to be better than u and have less skill issues than u.

  1. what’s wrong with calling somebody who knows more than me about russian technology? necrons is a god of information about russian vehicles.
  2. ur arguments are so trash and repetitive i have heard them everywhere and what i can’t believe is that u and all the other NATO players can’t admit their skill issue. if Pantsir SM-SV is so annoying then why don’t u spawn camp the enemy and kill it? oh yeah, u suck spawn camping and u can’t even get near the enemy’s spawn cuz russia bias is so bright it blinds u which gives the shiny russian main a 3secs advantage over ur inferior NATO tank. oh yeah, u wouldn’t kill it cuz it’s so strong and spawn camping is illegal that’s why NATO players don’t do it, they’re legal and they don’t execute that dirty techniques made by the devil.
  3. now all tanks have trunnions, idk wtf are u talking about.

u must be ragebaiting if u believe USSR is the only nation that gets OP vehicles:
when it was released, the F-15E was the BEST toptier jet IN THE GAME. u couldn’t fly it’s soviet counterpart (Su-27SM, the new toptier jet for Russia with Fox-3s) cuz the Strike Eagle was just better at EVERYTHING. that was a really bad time to play with Russia, and i’m not the only person who remembers it very clearly.

u also have Leopard 2A7V, which was the new toptier tank for Germany when the Leopard 2A6 and PSO were the only useable tanks in the german TT. that thing stomped EVERYTHING thx to it’s new 3rd Gen thermals, amazing armor, AMAZING CANNON, and very good mobility (but slightly worse than the other Leopards).

1063

A lot of the weapons that people have been asking for are weapons that can only be balanced in a PvE setting or in RTS, but not in a PvP CQC tank combat game

It’s amazing to me how much people are asking for non-interactive weapons in a game like this…

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1064

Make a bug report if your heart desires so. Also even if you could prove it, pretty sure it wouldn’t get it, only the J-10C has gen3+ rn (i think atleast) and would be labeled as not a bug or maybe a suggestion