It uses barak 1 missiles that can be guided SACLOS, and can pull better with 12km range in compare with a stinger.
The cannon its also different, it doesnt uses a 25mm short barrel, it uses a long 20mm roatary with a very good radar, basically what the navy (and ground bases) use to defend their ships against munitions.
Also it can use APDS rounds.
It should be a battle. SPAA should only either be able to do long range or close range attacks and not be overwhelmingly strong at both. If there is no counter other than rushing enemy spawns and leaving cap points to the enemy, it’s not balanced.
The point of any specific kind of vehicle ingame is to succeed at some things and have drawbacks in others. That’s balance. Heavy tanks have good armor but awful mobility. Light tanks can get around easily to flank but have no armor. Medium tanks are okay at both, a success within itself, but aren’t stellar at anything.
Likewise, Multi-vehicle SPAAs are amazing for long range attacks but suffer in short-range and to pop-ups. Gun-based SPAAs (ADATS, S1, CS/SA5) are harder to kill in short range.
The new Pantsir excels in all roles and your only proposed counter is to leave capture points (win conditions) behind. That’s just ignorant.
Oh trust me, Most ARMs will just be slow fat targets and the current AA will be more than enough to intercept them
The thing is, fixed wing CAS atm actually requires a brain with how much capable AA we have and they’re right by saying its powerful, but now its just overkill.
Nato Ground sim will be in shambles, 80% russian winrate incomming
Thats the problem, nothing exists that even resembles the pantsir. What NATO has left over are more missile systems like the Patriot and similar. There is a clear difference in doctrine between some nations which will cause imbalance in the game of course.
Regularly facing TT Su-30s, helis, and other planes. Maybe 1 in 5 is a premium.
wdym?
95Ya6, 95Ya6M and TKB-1055 are real.
Guess someone can’t even read….
they could have added something else then thats able to intercept ammunitions then, i think there do exist some vehicles made for this kind of job
its mostly that one sided new addition for a specific country, i think the BUK already had the fastest missile ingame (for AA systems atleast)
and now it has the fastest missile out of all
well yeah thats the thing, premium or not , the average wt player barely knows how to use their jet properly. Cant really compare randoms to top 20 SQB players.
I think you and I were coming at this from different angles. I’m talking about regular games that matter more to most players. Balance should be based around the majority, not in the hands of a few.
It isn’t a battle though. A good SPAA only works against bad CAS players.
You only need a single tank to get to a place where it can kill SAMs, you don’t need your entire team to do so.
Each SAM is also one less MBT or light tank on the battlefield actually contesting the objective.
If you want to do CAS, you either deal with the SPAA beforehand and coordinate with your team to have them attack SPAA spawned afterwards or you learn how to defend against SPAA and/or abuse the long range weapons that you can just spam without having to get into danger in the first place.
SPAA has only a single purpose, defending against planes. It should excel at defending against planes.
The obvious downside is that it (usually) is bad at dealing with tanks.
Using a tank should be the main counter against SPAA.
Currently all top tier SPAA except for the few SACLOS systems that can actually reach the helipads AND intercept missiles are completely outmatched by the power and amount of weapons that they have to deal with.
Long range SAMs are extremely easy to counter by flying defensively and lobbing long range weapons, short range SAMs usually are so limited in terms of range that they can only be used against heli rushers and overconfident planes.
That’s not ignorant, that’s the reality.
very good argument in a game supposed to be balanced.
Just like US players wanting the US to stomp every nation because its the biggest Airforce irl
The game is supposed to be balanced
what about their ordinance? SPAA dont interact with only a plane itself. sure it wont kill a competent CAS player, but it sure as hell will negate their presence
well yea I agree squadron battles are kinda left to die by the devs at this point…
thing is you cant really say clicking planes is easy in SACLOS SPAA when you face below average players most of the time.
tbh big doesn’t mean good, Germany is pretty much better than USA in many ways, excluding the fact they don’t have their own 5th Gen aircrafts. most of the good things come from Europe.
I 100% agree with you, i was just proving that their “that’s the reality.” argument is bullshit
they’re USA mains, what did u expect.
in their minds Abrams has 5000hp, 2500mm of armor everywhere and a 8000mm penning APFSDS round.
How else are you going to balance anti air?
It literally has only ONE JOB!
Want to play CAS? Make sure that anti air won’t be a problem.
Except for the Pantsirs the average anti air vehicle can only defend against a limited amount of A2G weapons while planes and especially helis can just keep spamming long range weapons without any threat at all.
Well technically speaking if Gaijin balance vehicles based upon their introduction years Us will pretty much stomp every nation in game from 1960’s to 2010’s.
Highly ignorant. You can be shot at off spawn by most/all top tier SPAAs. I’ve died doing everything right (notching, multipathing, using terrain). With multi-vehicle SPAAs, the counter was to stay low and rocket/bomb/gun from angles where they couldnt have a reaction time to see you. Older/lower BR platforms could be killed by doing standoffs with long range weapons, where oftentimes they’d have plenty of time to intercept. My munitions have been intercepted by 2s6s on more than one occasion in sim.
LOS to enemy spawns is spawncamping, and you can be countered very easily because you either have to be in a specific, predictable location with cover or expose yourself. Some gun SPAAs can also lolpen quite a few tanks frontally, and it’s happened to me when they respawn with protection.
Respawning/multiple spawn points makes this not a guarantee
No one would do that unless youre playing with friends, even then you need to take 1-2 players away from the battle to essentially sit in their spawn
Exactly what I’m asking here. I haven’t found a counter to the new S1 yet.
Again, 48 intercept-oriented missiles means you can’t just do that.
This argument doesn’t work because it assumes most SPAAs are balanced solely on the fact that theyre weak against TANKS. For balance, they need to be able to be countered in one way or another that isn’t reliant on spawncamping. One single vehicle shouldn’t be able to hold down an entire airspace without competition. You also can’t always get into enemy spawns without highly exposing yourself.
There is credibility to this. I am not talking about most SPAAs though – solely the new Pantsir.
Not always possible. Your best bet is actually staying low and using terrain as cover until you can get the jump on them. Standoffs don’t work against long range SPAA because they can press a single key to take down your munitions.
They usually do well with intercepts as well, which relates to the whole point of this thread.
Combining the last 2 quotes, you now describe an SPAA that you either have to stay far away from and get your munitions intercepted by (SACLOS) or get close and be gunned down (“overconfident planes”).
Then it’s not balanced. Simple as that.
Edit – Planes corrected to tanks on one reply
it would pretty much make all nations useless.
AIM-120 is the best missile in the entire world thx to it’s exageratly good BVR capabilities, and since BVR is actually real and deadly in real life, if WT was realistic we would all be already dead.
things like NASAMS 3 would be unstoppable thx to it’s small size, good radar and OP missiles.
by the other hand, Russia would be absolute trash, all their SPAAs wouldn’t be able of detecting a fly (imagine that a biplane travelled almost half Russia to the Red Square in plain Cold War when Russia said "we have the best radars and SPAA in the world, try to enter our territory and u will DIE, and a random german pilot decided to prove if it was true, just to see how absolutely nothing stopped him).
and R-77-1 would be MICA-EM 2.0, since it would have 0 range and u must be forced to play near the ground to avoid BVR where american planes have the advantage.