I think you and I were coming at this from different angles. I’m talking about regular games that matter more to most players. Balance should be based around the majority, not in the hands of a few.
It isn’t a battle though. A good SPAA only works against bad CAS players.
You only need a single tank to get to a place where it can kill SAMs, you don’t need your entire team to do so.
Each SAM is also one less MBT or light tank on the battlefield actually contesting the objective.
If you want to do CAS, you either deal with the SPAA beforehand and coordinate with your team to have them attack SPAA spawned afterwards or you learn how to defend against SPAA and/or abuse the long range weapons that you can just spam without having to get into danger in the first place.
SPAA has only a single purpose, defending against planes. It should excel at defending against planes.
The obvious downside is that it (usually) is bad at dealing with tanks.
Using a tank should be the main counter against SPAA.
Currently all top tier SPAA except for the few SACLOS systems that can actually reach the helipads AND intercept missiles are completely outmatched by the power and amount of weapons that they have to deal with.
Long range SAMs are extremely easy to counter by flying defensively and lobbing long range weapons, short range SAMs usually are so limited in terms of range that they can only be used against heli rushers and overconfident planes.
That’s not ignorant, that’s the reality.
very good argument in a game supposed to be balanced.
Just like US players wanting the US to stomp every nation because its the biggest Airforce irl
The game is supposed to be balanced
what about their ordinance? SPAA dont interact with only a plane itself. sure it wont kill a competent CAS player, but it sure as hell will negate their presence
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well yea I agree squadron battles are kinda left to die by the devs at this point…
thing is you cant really say clicking planes is easy in SACLOS SPAA when you face below average players most of the time.
tbh big doesn’t mean good, Germany is pretty much better than USA in many ways, excluding the fact they don’t have their own 5th Gen aircrafts. most of the good things come from Europe.
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I 100% agree with you, i was just proving that their “that’s the reality.” argument isnt that well grounded and fails to represent balance
they’re USA mains, what did u expect.
in their minds Abrams has 5000hp, 2500mm of armor everywhere and a 8000mm penning APFSDS round.
How else are you going to balance anti air?
It literally has only ONE JOB!
Want to play CAS? Make sure that anti air won’t be a problem.
Except for the Pantsirs the average anti air vehicle can only defend against a limited amount of A2G weapons while planes and especially helis can just keep spamming long range weapons without any threat at all.
Well technically speaking if Gaijin balance vehicles based upon their introduction years Us will pretty much stomp every nation in game from 1960’s to 2010’s.
Highly ignorant. You can be shot at off spawn by most/all top tier SPAAs. I’ve died doing everything right (notching, multipathing, using terrain). With multi-vehicle SPAAs, the counter was to stay low and rocket/bomb/gun from angles where they couldnt have a reaction time to see you. Older/lower BR platforms could be killed by doing standoffs with long range weapons, where oftentimes they’d have plenty of time to intercept. My munitions have been intercepted by 2s6s on more than one occasion in sim.
LOS to enemy spawns is spawncamping, and you can be countered very easily because you either have to be in a specific, predictable location with cover or expose yourself. Some gun SPAAs can also lolpen quite a few tanks frontally, and it’s happened to me when they respawn with protection.
Respawning/multiple spawn points makes this not a guarantee
No one would do that unless youre playing with friends, even then you need to take 1-2 players away from the battle to essentially sit in their spawn
Exactly what I’m asking here. I haven’t found a counter to the new S1 yet.
Again, 48 intercept-oriented missiles means you can’t just do that.
This argument doesn’t work because it assumes most SPAAs are balanced solely on the fact that theyre weak against TANKS. For balance, they need to be able to be countered in one way or another that isn’t reliant on spawncamping. One single vehicle shouldn’t be able to hold down an entire airspace without competition. You also can’t always get into enemy spawns without highly exposing yourself.
There is credibility to this. I am not talking about most SPAAs though – solely the new Pantsir.
Not always possible. Your best bet is actually staying low and using terrain as cover until you can get the jump on them. Standoffs don’t work against long range SPAA because they can press a single key to take down your munitions.
They usually do well with intercepts as well, which relates to the whole point of this thread.
Combining the last 2 quotes, you now describe an SPAA that you either have to stay far away from and get your munitions intercepted by (SACLOS) or get close and be gunned down (“overconfident planes”).
Then it’s not balanced. Simple as that.
Edit – Planes corrected to tanks on one reply
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it would pretty much make all nations useless.
AIM-120 is the best missile in the entire world thx to it’s exageratly good BVR capabilities, and since BVR is actually real and deadly in real life, if WT was realistic we would all be already dead.
things like NASAMS 3 would be unstoppable thx to it’s small size, good radar and OP missiles.
by the other hand, Russia would be absolute trash, all their SPAAs wouldn’t be able of detecting a fly (imagine that a biplane travelled almost half Russia to the Red Square in plain Cold War when Russia said "we have the best radars and SPAA in the world, try to enter our territory and u will DIE, and a random german pilot decided to prove if it was true, just to see how absolutely nothing stopped him).
and R-77-1 would be MICA-EM 2.0, since it would have 0 range and u must be forced to play near the ground to avoid BVR where american planes have the advantage.
I hate this notion on the forums. Yeah Timmy in his clickbait wants to win every game with “muh abrams” but that doesn’t mean you discredit everything US mains ask for.
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so yeah, in a world like the real one, i would prefer to play a half-balanced game than a realistic game.
i don’t deny USA mains have actual reasons for complaining about certain things which i also agree with, but most of the time they just cry about how bad things like the Abrams are even when it has probably the best reverse in the game, a 5secs reload with Ace crew, decent armor (not the best, not the worst) and the 2nd best APFSDS in the game.
Now imagine facing F-22 Raptor in your base Su-30 or MiG-29.
it would probably be 14.7 paired with the Su-30SM2, and USA mains would still complain that Su-30SM2 is superior just cuz “it’s russian”.
they wouldn’t even admit it’s fair to make it face the Su-57 even if the Su-57 is inferior in many ways (at least irl).
F-22:
If we dont have 16.0 by then, ARB will be dead because of the severe compression.
Imagine facing nex-gen IR missiles and 5th gen fighters in your 14.0 F18 without HMD
in american english, that would translate to “hell, despair and chaos! the Raptor is balanced at 14.7! keep it at 14.7, it’s fair!”
Loud =/= correct. Most new players pick the USA. The result of this stereotype is basically a hatred for US mains on the forums, and now the anemic state of US top tier because no one takes the issues seriously.
how are you making up scenarios in your head and actually getting upset at them
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