Isnt the TOR-M1 more in-line with the other nation spaas??
Also they shouldnt have added the KH-38MT if they were not planning in adding supersonic missiles to other nations as well, the KH-25MT and KH-29 were good enough too. KH-38ML yeah not so much problem.
Helis with FnF were easily defeated by 5th gen missiles (such as p5 or aim9x) and spike atgms, now they made them almost invincibles. Its not even a realistic feature for LDIRCM.
HARMs will just lead to blufor SAMs and SPAAs suffering even more than they currently do
but when the rest gets one thats better than any previous SPAA we dont speak of power creep
Alot of people complained about the irist when it got added, it could even kill you on your AF
You still need to know how to use it unlike the rest which are just 2 buttons and the missiles do the rest for you.
With the radar screen its also just 2 buttons that do the work for you, except now you also get 30 missiles to intercept all their ordinance
And you cant really complain how noone else has something similar to it when noone built SPAA systems like this aside from russia.
And where does balance come in a situation like that?
Gib MMW brimstones on my typhoons because russia hasnt built a system like that.
It doesnt justify adding something just because no one else has anything silimar, Hell its even WHY THEY SHOULDNT ADD IT, THERE ISNT A COUNTERPART.
War thunder isnt just a vacuum, everything you add has an effect on everything else, especially when its the best in its class.
F14 forced everyone to multipath or die, Gripen was basically untouchable when it was released, Pantsir protected its team for 2 years when it got added.
Sounds ridiculous but its actually true, even BUKs work without TADS lmao
But since they won’t screw Russia, it won’t matter and we won’t get a devblog announcing major changes.
With how absurdly advanced RU SPAA is now, HARMS wouldn’t even be a threat with their pretty low speed and no terminal MMW seeker.
We would need things like Mako, AARGM-ER, STRATUS-RS and other comparable systems to even have a chance of suppressing the new pantsir 2 reliably.
Oh definitely, the USSR should have gotten the TOR rather than the Pantsir and the Kh-25/29s were more than enough to be competitive, but Gaijin apparently thought otherwise
Personally, I don’t care how easy the helis themselves are to kill with a nerfed LDIRCM, FnF missiles on helis should never have been added
The problem is that, if Gaijin adds ARMs in a way that makes them useable against the SAMs and SPAAs we currently have, they would also be useable against other nations anti air, not just against Pantsirs
Pantsirs wouldn’t really care about ARMs being sent their way, meanwhile the other SAMs would be forced to play defensively against ARMs, while also trying to not get killed by tanks
Planes shouldn’t be overpowering anti air to begin with, anti air should have the upper hand against CAS
Later HARMs do have MMW terminal seekers, iirc C and onwards do.
Also it’s Pantsir-SM, not Pantsir-S2 if that’s what you’re calling it.
It is unfortunately so.
These hyper modern ARMs aren’t even something that can be arbitrarily limited to exclusively attack the Pantsir 2 radar band either.
Older systems can be forced to only target that band but they’re just outright non-threats to 80% of the multi-vehicle SAM systems in the game.
Maybe if the multi-vehicle SAM systems are given a 4th unit that is a CIWS or DEW system we could have a bit more parity between the rest of the game and RU (even then Pantsir 2 still has AT abilities with the overperforming penetration on the hypersonic missile, these others would still be toothless against ground assets)
Plus like… if they add ARMs as a means to “counter” Pantsir-SM-SV, then Russia will also get it’s fair share of ARMs… Since unlike Kh-38, NATO and Russia/China all have options through one way or another.
Wow, just like low tier helis, that also get spammed by planes, it’s a wonder why people like MAW and LDIRCM helis, because it’s not an free kill for planes most of the time.
Well then can we have realistic NATO systems, why is the IRIS-T missing?
Why are AMRAAMs hilariously weak.
I am talking about poorly positioned helipads that this Pantsir will have complete power to obliterate, not to mention that trees do not block radars, something that Gaijin should look into.
I do not care what happens at early BR helicopters. The counter to early helicopters will obviously be planes and SPAAGs, this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
People didn’t complain about the new top tier SAMs as those SAMs were needed to actually deal with CAS
People are complaining about the new Pantsir because it completely outperforms the existing SAMs
However the main problem is still how powerful CAS is and how weak the current anti air vehicles are in comparison
Iris-T has done the same exact thing.
It just needs a mili sec of lock time, and you’re dead. Unless you can hide behind a mountain.
Seems like anytime the Iris fires it’s a guaranteed kill.
Additionally, they need to add back helicopter pad spaa.
I am talking about re-positioning helipads for greater defense against hypersonic missiles (and just SAMs in general), the reaction time for most forward helipads against the new Pantsir is something like less than 3 seconds. It’s impossible to dive in time, not to mention that trees do not block radar so it can track through trees.
“Well you know, we are going to add another anti-air to russia, and it’s gonna have ten million missiles in one game! Why? because the BUK is UNDERPERFORMING!”
Yes! the BUK is UNDERPERFORMING!!! YOU HEARD THEM, THE BUK IS UNDERPERFORMING
What do you mean you only have AGM-65 and glided bombs? Because you CAS, and CAS is bad!!!
What did you say? You said Kh-38MT is also broken CAS? That’s the CAS of justice! and your CAS is simply vicious! They are different!
AGM-88D, it’s Mach 2 capable has a (fairly small) warhead and can be used to target GPS coordinates and can be carried by most relevant airframes, if you need a non-Anti-radiation seeker there is the AGM-88E ARRGM which added IIR, and if you need speed there is the AGM-88J SiAW.
ARMIGER is also a Mach 3 capable ARM/IIR missile with onboard GPS, that could come to Western nations, albeit to a limited set of airframes like Tornado and maybe Eurofighter.
NATO needs it’s EW systems to counter this being able to use a Growler to jam Pantsir/BUK Radars to allow other aircraft to attack would be a good work around. Adding HARMS when a Pantsir SV can just intercept the whole lot is completely pointless.
You would need a Strategic level bombers payload to be able to overwhelm a Pantsir SV