This is part of why people who argue for these russian additions try to group all blufor nations into “nato”, it makes it easier to argue that there’s no bias because it completely obfuscates the fact that while all of the other nations get maybe 1 or 2 strong vehicles that then get nerfed through the ground, Russia gets like 10. “But nato has x and y strong vehicles” no, each other nation has like one maybe.
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I think you’re forgetting the fact that during the entire War Thunder service life of the IRIS-T it has in fact received nerfs due to both historical accuracy and game balance.
Your argument hangs on the thread of “it’s German therefore hypocrisy” when as far as I know it’s been nerfed like any vehicle that has overperformed both in the historical and balance sense.
The only reason the IRIS-T doesn’t make it for a good counterexample is because:
- It didn’t break top tier
- Germany nor any other nation got a superior variant while the current one performs well
- It has been nerfed
The entire reason this forum thread exists is because the same nation as always gets all the goodies and treatment when it comes to vehicles and historical accuracy (which sometimes is ignored lol).
The Pantsir SM-SV was not needed in any sort of way or form, it was just a nonsensical addition to a tech tree that already performs well in ground.
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Thats where people gotta open their minds. Not every nation theought the tech trees are going to have sinilar capabilities, especially the more modern you go.
As it currently stands the U.S has a drone problem and the only thing theyre relying on js Strukers and humvees with stingers and crams.
Or multi vehicle sam systems.
Russias doctorine heavily leans into anti-air and they along china are the only nations that have focusrd heavily into SHORADS of this kind.
If you wanna bring up “balance” then majority of CAS beeds to lose most of its spammable munitions that can overwhelm any SPAA in the game as of current.
Or the competent CAS pulot judt flies low, and guns down the SAMS because besides the Pa tsir, no nation has invested into a all in one platform.
There wasnt balance before this Pantsir was added and gimping a nations ability the more modern you go, or saying “dont add this because other nations dont have it” is stupid thinking, because of course certain nations dont have everything.
Look at mid tier U.S spaa as an example, barely any options while Germany and USSR have really good options. But of course U.S cas dominates at that tier and no nation dueing that time period has equivalently as espansive of CAS, even when you push into Korean/Cold war era.
Using that example, that technically isnt fair, sonshould U.S be handicapped from CAS because other nations at that tier dont have equivalents?
what?
Just read and see what I replied too lmao
Mid tier? Good SPAA’s? In Germany?
I mean, unless you’re talking about the OSa I think you might be stretching the concept of “good”
You can’t kill AH-64Es with most SAMs either, don’t act like the Mi-28MN is the only problematic one
Genuinely this is the thread where I’ve seen the most out of touch responses, EVER.
All helicopters have been a problem and nobody wants to admit that.
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Different countries having different doctrines and representing them in game is fine but if the “We focus into SHORAD instead of air superiority” nation also gets better CAS then the “we focus into air power, screw SHORAD” nation then we have a problem.
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WW2 tier, thats the example I was using…
That is understandable, but that also means saying this SHORAD is “op” because of Russian CAS is illogical.
Not saying you are, but analyzing the vehicle itself, its not as op as people want to make it out to be.
Yeah it sucks western nations didnt think to strap guns on their sam systems, what can ya do about it.
All this vehicle does is show that Helicopters and CAS in general with all their new toys will still dominate because they will just run em dry of missiles, nothings really changed.
Then they cant get to cap to refill because its not safe and an ammo box isnt enough to compensate for the fact its not very mobile. Get marked by a drone? Now a helicopter pilot can psuedo artillery you with dumb rockets.
And that is exactly where the problem comes in. You have 2 competetive 12.7 SPAA on russias side with the single best 12.0 SPAA as a potential free spawn and the by far hardest to intercept FnF AGMs. Everyone else has much less to work with fighting as and against CAS
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That is correct, but what else do the western nations have for this? Unless you wanna include Israels Iron Dome, which is stationary to my knowledge…
This is just where you see the major difference in doctorine focus.
Everyone is saying Italy needs new SPAA, but all they got is another SAM slinging system with no gun, whatever newest system in 2024/23.
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When I intially heard these SAM systems were being added. I said the maps have to get bigger for them to actually work. The SAMS are meant to engage before they actually get into feasible range, but the playerbase insists that bigger maps are bad and they dont want it.
Playerbase doesnt even know what they want, they complain when theres an obvious solution, but dont want that solution.
Take APHE for example. Everykne blowing up on the forums about the Yak-9k being op because of the APHE it has. Well guess what. Gaijin did a vote to push for realistic APHE changes, but nobody wanted that, “I wanna one shot everything” so thats currently what you get.
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Better CAS? The problem is explicitely not that russia gets the best SPAA coverage, its that they have the best SPAA coverage and the best CAS
I don’t think the player base is actively reject bigger maps, if anything the apparent rejection of these comes from the fact that whenever it is requested, Gaijin instead of expanding the map to a healthy margin they just go “oh alright, here’s another Operation map”
And those are still tiny.
Well, thats not what everyone has been saying based on the forum. Its just this Pantsir is “oh so game breaking” on its own.
tbf its only the best cas because its experimental technology.