Oh yeah absolutely. Its crazy how underperforming SPAA from other nations get, at best, some cautious buffs (or stuff like the IRIS T SLM seeker range change) and russia just gets a brand new, top of the line SPAA just because their designated multi vehicle SPAA is not that great.
The disbalance is NOT that great. CAS still had a very strong hold before the Pantsir to begin with, and CAS was never really balanced to begin with, they were almost always on top, and this applies to a wide range of brs, not just limited to top tier.
That sounds like too me that you’re just deflecting the problem. Because people seem to have a hard time acknowleding how CAS can be. So the moment the authuority is challenged there’s a melt down. So you’d rather it just go back to CAS being an issue, rather than suggesting a change too CAS in tandem (if the pantsir was too be removed). (it wont)
ADAS and ITO still take out helicopters just fine, even though they don’t have the insane speed. And don’t even get me started on helicopters because they bring their own slew of problems to Ground RB. At this point, they are a risk-reward vehicle that can absolutely dominate when disregarded. Not to mention what an absolute menace they can be against aircraft that attempt to deal with them
A lot of the thread hardly focuses on past issues and keeps defaulting to “put it back the way it is was.”
Is this figure based on launches at high altitudes at a certain speed, or is this accounting from a static launch. They were discussions about this before and there are great differences when it comes to ground launched missles.
Can they take out heli missiles just as good? Can they take out munitions in general just as good? And do they have access to smoke grenades to drop missiles off them?
There is absolutely no AA Gaijin could add or possibly buff that would change the fact that most of these AA systems will struggle against countering munitions, especially when not given the proper amount of range to do so on smaller maps.
Nuclear Thunder is a different story because nobody is closing the gap on them to ~<15 kilometers and you are forced to mainly standoff munitions or teamwork, than trying to solo everything.
Not as good as the Pantisr but, they still can.
And if there’s an issue where you think they’re falling behind on taking out munitions that heli can very easily spam and overwhelm just abot anybody, then it’s not the Pantsirs fault it can manage it better than the rest. That’s shifting the blame.
What you should be asking is why are the helis allowed to do this in the first place and why they can spawn so close or why certain maps favor them heavily in that regard.
I’ll say it again, add the Patriot right, on these same maps we have in rotation. What is that going to change against a helicopter flying at low altitude.
I can’t even think of any other top tier SAM system to be added that would make sense, because they don’t prioritize, high cortisol,low reaction time, fast paced, close range, high density/saturation attacks.
The Pantsir does.
There’s nothing in the world that’s going to ultimately change that, with how the gameplay roles.
Here’s a fun suggestion:
Nerf how fast the SM-SV can fire its missiles, rn there’s basically no delay in how fast it can fire the next one.
We should give it the same delay as what the S1 has.
Would actually be a really healthy nerf for the SM
I’ve seen this suggested before, almost none of the other AAs have this delay, this was moslty exclusive to the S-1
And one can very much argue why planes don’t have this delay ethier, as some weapons can’t be rippled off as fast as they currentely do, or have a certain time to acquire a target before firing.
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I think youre not getting what im saying or the thread at all. The problem is not disbalance between SPAA and CAS but between russian SPAA and everyone elses. CAS is/was oppressive and thats a problem on its own but the problem with the SM SV is that its only ever on 1 of 2 teams.
Are we deadass comparing the ADATS and ITO to the SM SV now just because theyre all SACLOS?
Buffing the reliability of the IRIS T SLM against munitions (without giga nerfing the seeker) is certainly an option and so is modifying the drag on all missiles so they might actually reach their max range without falling out of the sky halfway there. You know, like a certain missile that apparently doesnt have any drag at all.
AMRAAM-ER is not air operated.
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I’m not comparing them 1 to 1 for every little knick’ knack. Just like how the SAMPT and the NASAMS use ARH missles.
I’m saying the ITO, FLakRAkRAD, ADATS, and ITO, all use SACLOS missles, and have similar advantages/disadvantages that come with that, just how ARH missles comes with their own advantages/disadvantages.
Well, I pretty much broke it down. As it stand no other nation has anything close to the Pantsir, the doctorines/priorities are completely different, there is nothing you can do to change that. This is why I said the non Russian SPAA are much more effective in Nuclear Thunder because they aren’t put in a situation where they can be easily gimped, and instead rely heavily on layered air defense.
Russia Relies on layered air defense too, but have different systems and different technology/ways they employ them that differ greatly. There’s no modern NATO AA that’s going be an exact fit for Russias. That’s already been established, and if people are so keen on getting it removed, then CAS should be dumbed down so NATO SPAA have a chance. That is what I’m saying.
At longer ranges yes, but remember–I said a lot of these systems fall short at close ranges, leaving very little reaction time, which is how most end up dying anyways, close range attacks they cannot effectively challenge or handle.
Based on the missles design, I’m not surpirsed it has little to no drag, but when we get more info on it, we will see.
explain to me how a missile that is only used as a SAM would be launched at high altitude and speed?
Gotcha, so is there any parameters will it reliably reach Mach 4.5 as the other person said prior? I don’t imagine it has near the acceleration it does of the Pantsirs missles, but I also don’t see how it will reach those speeds against aircraft at closer ranges in a more practical sense.
I presume a lot of these figures account for reaching higher altitudes, where the air is thinner and possibly not aggressively manuvering against targets.
Nowhere as good*
Everyone already pointed out heli related problems such as jammers and mp bs.
I would remove mp and jammers power against ircm missiles so it performs closer to irl analogs.
What should I actually ask by the way is why every nation besides ussr has no reliable missile/plane killer for closer ranges. Iris t, claws, nasams, hq11 and others have this downside but pantsir sm sv doesnt.
I can think of not adding unbalanced garbage and leaving everyone on equal footing. And solving problems like jammers, multipath and other stuff. Plane wise as well so 0.9M trash without damage doesnt cost as much as 2.2M instagib death stick.
He already informed me it was ground based only. I forgot honestly that it was.
Idk, i do not have said figures on hand.
What i can grab is ESSM source stating it can reach Mach 4+. AMRAAM-ER combines ESSM motor with AMRAAM warhead and seeker, which is relatively simmilar to Sparrow body.
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HQ-11 is designed for this, as it’s technically a slightly better Tor-M1, but the base Tor would not survive top tier. The tor M-2 would be much beter at this job.
The answer to why no nation has anything similar comes down to doctorine. Same with how planes in Air RB or tanks in Ground RB differ to some degree, or have focuses on things other countries don’t consider a focus.
Russias planes don’t carry as much precision high density ordanance as U.S aircraft do (as an example)
Apologies, don’t wanna sound like that guy demanding figures or something.
I more so asked because I don’t doubt it can reach those speeds, I just don’t imagine it can accelerate to those speeds as fast. Long range missles usually reach those speeds at higher altitudes and don’t accelerate as fast to conseve fuel for those longer ranges.
And nobody in Ground RB hangs at high altitude except for F-117s
Idk, i do not have speed curves for AMRAAM-ER
Jammers wouldn’t make much sense because those are only effective based on distance. The closer you get to a target the less reliable it is. Everyone likes to close the gap on SPAA, so jammers would be pointless in this context, unless you plane to execute such strategies where it makes sense (Nuclear Escalation.)
From how I see it, nobody was ever on equal footing to begin with, it’s just a power struggle. But I notice when CAS is forcibly challenged, and it just so happens to be from Russia, of course there’d be an outrage. So it feels pointless.
From how I see it: Fast paced gameplay, you have an SPAA that can meet on equal footing and able to react as fast as a CAS pilot can. I can almost never do this in a conventional SAM system and I’ve played the NASAMS and CLAWS religiously