The Pantsir SM-SV is Simply Too Strong, Russian Bias as Clear as Day

[ww2planes]

1. Yeah, and I’m calling you out on acting like it isn’t. Literally almost the entire hull + turret ring + breach area + top of turret is pennable on the Abrams. The ONLY thing that doesn’t get penned is the cheeks.

2. Oh, you mean like how I use them and have been dropping 4+ kills a match holding down choke points? Ironic you’re supporting that Russian MBTs suck yet have a massively positive KD in them that outperform your Abrams.

3. And? Doesn’t matter if you have a 5 or 7 second reload. If you’re in a 2v1, you’re going to die unless they’re being brain dead. Again, stop playing like it’s COD then and position yourself better or stick around allies

4. I mean… I’ve been bouncing plenty with them in the past month. Guess that’s the advantage of using terrain to my advantage

5. I mean, I was using it at 11.7 with 3BM42 and getting top 3 fraggers in the match. Been doing even better since I got 3BM60.

[MotorolaCRO]

@ww2planes

Literally almost the entire hull + turret ring + breach area + top of turret is pennable on the Abrams. The ONLY thing that doesn’t get penned is the cheeks.

Cheeks and UFP which literally is armor.
Something like Ariete is a point and click though.

@ww2planes

Ironic you’re supporting that Russian MBTs suck

Show me where I said that they suck ?
You seem lost.

@ww2planes

yet have a massively positive KD in them that outperform your Abrams.

?
I’ve performed better in my SEP and M1A2 than in BVM though…

@ww2planes

And? Doesn’t matter if you have a 5 or 7 second reload. If you’re in a 2v1, you’re going to die unless they’re being brain dead.

Who said the second enemy will immediately appear after you fire your shot ?
I’ve missed countless free kills and got killed who knows how many times because I couldn’t reload a second or two faster.

@ww2planes

I mean, I was using it at 11.7 with 3BM42 and getting top 3 fraggers in the match. Been doing even better since I got 3BM60.

Okay ?

[Jεcka]

@MotorolaCRO

Two things manufactured in 2020 can have vastly different performance, I thought this was common sense in this day and age.

Well… they can, and usually they do (look: SEPv3 'n 2A7V versus T-90M), but in Gaijin’s eyes, 2A7V is a 2IVT level MBT, and SEPv3 likely won’t even get its Relikt busting round, same with 2A8 when it comes :)

[MotorolaCRO]

@Jεcka

Well… they can, and usually they do (look: SEPv3 'n 2A7V versus T-90M)

Glad that we can agree.

[Jεcka]

@MotorolaCRO

Glad that we can agree.

Good thing you ignored the rest of my post…

[MotorolaCRO]

Okay.

[genises1o]

chinas shells are HE-VT the 125mm just throwing this out there

[Jεcka]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[MotorolaCRO]

Me and that guy had a discussion if newer = better, which doesn’t seem to be true. Sorry for not entertaining your useless tangents though, I hope you’ll make it through.

[Crazed_Otter]

Woah there.

I mean, he’s argumentative but nobody is quite THAT bad. At least the guy can hold more than one train of thought before yeeting into the technicolour world of moon-howling lunacy that is ‘FULL ALVIS.’

Let us keep things in perspective…eh?

[noobnooby657]

lmao

[ww2planes]

You mean the UFP that bounces it into the turret ring because Gaijin won’t bring back APFSDS shatter like they said they would years ago?

Literally the chain is talking about how the T-series do better than the Abrams… you can’t be that obtuse to what we’re talking about?

You also have triple the games in the BVM (and sometime before a year ago for all of them, I really can’t comment on what the game was like when you ran them. People talk about the 105mm Abrams being OP but then only played it when it came out). Clearly it must be doing well if you’ve played it that much in comparison.

You’re the one talking about 1v2s. If you’re missing “free kills” that then and killed you at that BR, that’s a skill issue and you got punished accordingly.

[ww2planes]

Yeah, once I saw your comment went back in game I saw that they are proper VT with a proxy tip. On the phone they looked like the timer fuse. Wild they get an actual proxy VT with that much HE behind it with track IRST.

[MotorolaCRO]

@ww2planes

You mean the UFP that bounces it into the turret ring because Gaijin won’t bring back APFSDS shatter like they said they would years ago?

Or the UFP that bounces it into the turret, completely nullifying all damage ?

@ww2planes

Literally the chain is talking about how the T-series do better than the Abrams… you can’t be that obtuse to what we’re talking about?

You literally said: “They are objectively better in every regard except reverse speed” which is factually incorrect.

@ww2planes

People talk about the 105mm Abrams being OP

Where ?

@ww2planes

Clearly it must be doing well if you’ve played it that much in comparison.

I didn’t have premium when spading BVM and some other USSR vehicles which is easily seen by the vastly different SL/game between them.

@ww2planes

You’re the one talking about 1v2s. If you’re missing “free kills” that then and killed you at that BR, that’s a skill issue and you got punished accordingly.

You are seemingly uncapable of understanding that 1v2s can happen in different fashion than in your sole example.

It’s surely a skill issue that I positioned myself accordingly, killed one guy and then spotted another clueless individual that’s a free kill, that is if my round was reloaded in time to shoot him before he unknowingly escapes danger by driving behind a wall or something.

[An_Pigeon]

@ww2planes

• They can also use the MBTs… I did read that, it’s a dumb retort as top tier Russian players also use the MBTs.

yes but the MBTs are not the main source of their lopsided victories, is my and most peoples points

@ww2planes

Then why did you say “i frequently use 120mm HE or 125MM HE from my Chinese MBTs”?

120MM HE , and 125MM HE from my Chinese MBTs.

well I didn’t think I’d have to specificy that the 120MM HE is from NATO tanks like the Ariete, or Isreali tanks like the merkava Mk4B, Specifying the 125MM HE was chinese to make you aware that it’s not the 125MM russian HE.

@ww2planes

Not with the 120mm you don’t, which was the whole discussion point.

Yes I do lol.
it’s quite easy to do with both the proxy shell from the Merkava or the He from the Ariete, learn how to lob HE and it works great.

@ww2planes

he nice part about it is the fact it doesn’t set off Laser Warning Systems like you have to with the Abrams or Leopard to get range. Technically they should as that’s how the system gets range (unless it’s a two sensor system then it uses math but that’s only on things like the Strella).

The abrams and leopards lacking it isn’t such a big thing BTW.

@ww2planes

What proxy round does China and Israel get?

Isreal is timed fuse, but if you’ve a brain you can use it like proxy.

Also chinas shell is not a time fuse, it’s proxy always has been

@ww2planes

It should be a factor at least. It isn’t exactly fun to be in a tank from the 80s being slapped by tech from the mid 2010s

The abrams from the 90s doesn’t get slapped by the tanks from the 2010s but that’s the whole ass point.
You’ve got better mobility, better reload, better ammunition as well as still relevant protection.

Unlike say, a tiger 2 getting hammered by AMX30s and Leopard 1s hurling heat or APDS at it at mach jesus.

@ww2planes

You can argue that with any round if you hit the right spot… however, the amount of green on Russian tanks v others is significantly less,

it’s really not ,also again you’re focusing on only armour while completely ignoring all the other relevant points which are what bring it down.

@ww2planes

With that argument, 3BM46 is more than enough for Russia then.

what are you on about?
The abrams at 11.7 have a better round than russia at top tier?

The 3BM46 also is a decent round with the 6 second reload.
However it’s still no M829A2 (or even A1) fired out at 5 seconds a pop

@ww2planes

How so? Because they’re 5 mph slower in top speed and suck at reversing? I’ll take that any day seeing how NATO tanks are free food over having fake weak spots and having to snipe a thin turret ring/LFP (if the LFP even gets exposed).

So let me get this right, you believe NATO tanks are free food? at what Br have you used soviet MBTs up to? because I can tell you, they certainly aren’t free food at top tier lol.
they wreck russian tanks extremely easily.
The 5mph top speed and 50 percent less mobility? they can literally go 4kmh backwards mate that is massively detrimental especially in a metal focused around mobility.
Also you can easily take out the weak points of a russian MBT, if you can’t it’s clearly an issue between the keyboard and the chair.

@ww2planes

Funny seeing how I’ve yet to not murder a Merkava first shot from the front except when I’m stuck in a stock tank… Yes, they have very limited protection against KE projectiles in game

It’s funny how I’ve nearly more games in the merkavas than you have at rank 8 alone lol

The mark4s are sturdy tanks mate, no idea why you’d think otherwise, sure they’re not packing a russian UFP but they’re not exaclty getting one tapped often either. Believe me I’ve a near 2.0KD in mostof them xD

@ww2planes

Hell, M735 (at 9.0) will go from the front of the tank out the rear on up to the mid Merkavas whereas M829 punches through the 4M just fine. Idk why you’re acting like I’m wrong about it having piss poor armor against KE, especially at its BR.

Because it’s armours not bad, plus this comment shows how little you know about how vehicles like merkavas are used.

@ww2planes

Cool, and I’ve got 3k+ hours. I’ve taken the T-90A into plenty of 11.7+ being limited to 3BM42 and still was getting top 3 in the match so sounds more like skill issue than the tanks being actually bad.

I mean mate, I was pairing up my VRCC with an Ariete Cartezza and taking out BMPTs and keeping a positive KD every game with it, doesn’t suddenly make the VRCC a 11.7 tank does it.

@ww2planes

I do find it funny looking at your stats and then what you’re arguing about cause outside the M1A2, you’re getting cooked in the both Abrams and Russian MBTs.

Cooked how lol? all my Abrams are positive bar the standard M1 which was my first MBT of the BR. Plus the M1 KVT which is my latest usuage of the base model shows completely differently.

My russian MBTs as well all bar the turms and I believe one or two of the T72B models are 1.0KD or above, which Is why I know how crap they are lol
i’ve over 1240 games at rank 7 and up with USSR in tanks alone.

@ww2planes

ou haven’t had 1000 games in the Abrams, you’ve had 1000+ times of using it. And given the fact you’re either riding the line or negative KD in almost all, I’d take anything you say far from face value.

Bounce in your abrams then xD You’ve next to no games with these tanks at these BRs yet act like some authority, talking about tanks you’ve never used as if they’re bad or good.

Also I’ve over 1000 games in the abrams, I sat with a calculator and tallied up the games.
you’re even negative in the IPM1 which is wild

Your KD with the standard M1 is 1.49. Mine in the KVT is 1.75

Also no, I’ve over 1000 games in the abrams, if you can count lol, that’s all of those games added together.

@ww2planes

Always gotta love the “better mobility” when it’s negligible difference. Moving fast isn’t going to save you from the dart going from the front out the engine block from anywhere at any angle. Is the M18 better than the Tiger then?

• 1 why the hell don’t you actually quote what you respond to.
• 2 the mobility advantage allows you to relocate far far quicker than any soviet tank can.
• 3 the tiger has a better gun than teh M18 however most people woudl say the M18 will beat a tiger.

@ww2planes

Oh wow, the same turret from a 10.7 tank with no actual ERA setup to protect a good part of the turret is easy to pen at 12.7… who would have thunk. But guess what? Most of the time they’ll survive it while only being breached if you hit high/center or turret ring if you hit it low and then they can still shoot you back

seeing as I’ve no idea what you’re actually respondng to here I’ll assume it’s the BVM comment IF you actually have a brain you’ll remove the BVMs capabilities before it can fire at you.
If you’ve played more than a few hundred games at these BRs you’d see how easy russian MBTs die and how stupidly strong their SPAA, lights and of course terminators make them.
shock horror you’ve got a terminator lol

@ww2planes

Whereas with NATO tanks, you get cooked because

I don’t generally get cooked bar in my challangers mate, most if not all my Nato MBTs at rank 8 or 11.7 and up are all positive and doing quite well.

@ww2planes

Well, I see why your KD is so abysmal. If you’re sitting out in the open and not repositioning, of course they’re an easy kill. ANY tank is.

1.0 KD is abysmal ? didn’t realise mate lol.
Your stats show your most used vehicles as 5.7s and such, no wonder your farming KD xD Or tanks which ahve been under BRd or busted for along ass time.

Go grab an Ariete and get positive in it.

@ww2planes

However, they can take far more hits when popping up than other nations and I’ve done that plenty or is my roughly 2.0KD in Russian MBTs just imaginary?

My T90M is near 2.0 KD, Why? cause dumbasses shooting in in the UFP and expect to go clean through lol. Doesn’t make the tank great just cause idiots don’t know how to fight it.
Oh wait, you’ve not got a BVM or a T90M.

@ww2planes

I’m not trying to be rude saying this but you just seem to be objectively bad with US and Russian MBTs looking at your stat cards.

Bad how? all my abrams are positive, My russian MBTs like the T80s as well are all positive xD the T72 series MBTs suck.

Only one that’s not positive is the T72B3 which is ass.
I dispise the T72 model tanks a lot.
all my T80s are over 1.0KD ?? bar ofc the turms as I bought that many years ago lol.

again all my abrams ar einfact positive as well bar the base M1 as it was my first ever 10.X back in the day.

so where is this abysmal Kd you’re on about

@ww2planes

? I’m not trying to be rude saying this but you just seem to be objectively bad with US and Russian MBTs looking at your stat cards.

okay mate go play something which isn’t the big 3.

I’ve got 9 out of the 10 nations at top tier with postive KD in most their rank 7s/8s

you’ve barely 2 nations at these BRs and have the audacity to try tell folks what is, or isn’t right.

All my leopards, positive.

my CR2s aren’t positive, as they are genuinely terrible to use and I’ve not touched them in about 2years

All my Cr1s are fine though.

You get the point.
If you wanna try slag off someones stats, make sure you’ve at least played the vehicles.

@ww2planes

The Leopard 2A5 has 43,596,446 matches v the M1A1 HC’s 12,469,441 matches. Doing the actual math is about 3.5 times but I just did rounding b/c I didn’t care enough at the time to pull a calculator up

2A5 is not the most used MBT at these BRs for germany either but. You rarely see the 2a5 in comparison to the HC.
Also again, what is your point with thi sthouhg?

@ww2planes

Not really. They’ll say “it’s overperforming” but that could be anything. I’d argue the T-90A overperforms and is far more capable than where Gaijin put it but it’s somehow with tanks from the 80s. Why? No real idea.

What are you even responding to here.

@ww2planes

The mobility argument. And yes, compared to the Abrams. Also, and? Y’all sound like y’all play this game how you would Call of Duty and not as a tank, requiring quick reaction time to respond to other players as you didn’t think about how opponents will move in. It isn’t THAT much of a difference. If that’s the case, the poor British players with the Challangers must struggle.

the challangers really are a struggle to use in the current meta, yes ¿¿¿¿¿ that’s quite well known lol.

@ww2planes

Literally the only tank that can tank it head on from most spots in the Challanger and the T90M. Again, stop looking at just pure numbers and compare it to what it fights.

I’ve no idea what you’re responding to here, usethe built in quoting system man lol.

@ww2planes

Oh, that’s pretty bad for the Leclerc then. Also looks like they put the battery as part of the FCS instead of the electrical system. That shouldn’t be how that works in the slightest as that would be like knocking out an optic (which does nothing in game) but again, it’s NATO. As for the fuel tanks, is the one next to the ammo internal to the crew compartment or does it have a bulkhead IRL? I know they’re self sealing but Gaijin doesn’t model that well for planes, much less at all for tanks. It sounds like this poor tank needs a mass of bug reports. Makes sense as to why it doesn’t get that much action in game.

The leclerc IRL is substantially more well protected than in game, it’s beyond a pain to use now.

[An_Pigeon]

@MotorolaCRO

?
I’ve performed better in my SEP and M1A2 than in BVM though…

Dudes barely any rank 8 matches himself mate, I wouldn’t go too deep with it lol

[ww2planes]

Ammo is better suited for what it fights, has better armor via both heavy ERA and composite behind it and is designed to counter even better rounds, is artificially buffed to having better thermals than it has IRL, similar forward speed profile, Track IRST, large caliber VT shells, doesn’t have any of the FCS, autoloader, electrical and turret control systems modeled, no loader/commander debuff, spall liner, actually has a better vertical guidance speed, doesn’t get overpressured by hitting things on the roof with HEATFS/HE… shall I continue?

Oh don’t act stupid, you’ve literally been the one responding in those chats.

Then it wasn’t a free kill and you shot the wrong target :T Not as if that isn’t an issue with any other tank and that isn’t a 1v2 as neither are fighting you. That’s you shooting oblivious players xD Mark the map or get into a spot that gives you time to reload. Would you be crying about if you were watching a road and people cross it before you can reload then?

[ww2planes]

1. Prove it then. Yes, the Pantsir SM-SV is too powerful against non-Russian CAS, I do agree, but does that disprove that Russian tanks are also far stronger than NATO countries?

2. Read that again… that sentence literally states 120mm HE from your Chinese MBTs, which there is a Chinese 120mm. Clearly you need to touch up on your English skills.

3. Same as part 2.

4. It is when you’re trying to counter helicopters that other nations can nail with high caliber HE.

5. Proxy is a fuse type, not VT. Also, the wiki doesn’t show that as well as on the phone, looked like the time fuse head.

6. M1 105mm Abrams is from 1980 and limited to the 1980 round. It’s 0.3 BR lower than the T-90A from 2005 using a 2016 round. ZTZ99A was first seen in 2015. ZTZ99-III is from 2006.

M1A1 is from 1985. It does commonly have to fight top tier tanks released in the 2020s.

7. Oh wow, 2 second slower reload, a better round for what it fights (if it got US ammo logic, it would be limited to 3BM46), smaller profile, smaller weak spots, less systems to be knocked out leaving you dead in the water, etc.

8. Man, all y’all look at is the base number and not what it goes against… The only NATO tanks that can sustain 3BM60 through most of the hull is the Strv 122B+, Type 10/TKK and maybe the Leopard 2 saves it by bouncing the shot (but if there’s ANY elevation from 0*, 3BM60 goes through every bit of the hull). You get 2* above the M1 and the entire UFP is penetrated (then again, why would you not just aim for the turret ring as they still won’t fix that). Also, the 5 seconds is if you BUY it with real money and if the gunner and commander have max skills while not being injured. You lose one and your reload time just skyrocketed.

9. Literally playing into top tier because how Match Making works. For example, you do realize the M1A1 does fight 12.7 all the time right?

10. And? Does that negate I’ve smoked every single one I’ve come across with KE? If that’s your argument, I’ve got about a 2.0KD with every Russian MBT I own so that just proves they’re overpowered in comparison.

11. barely positive excluding the M1A2 and T-80UD. I’m running at least 1.5 up to over 2.0 with the M1s and T series tanks except the IPM1. So yes, I’d argue you being cooked in them on an argument of how they perform.

12. I’m sorry, I don’t enjoy being smoked by LMURs every 2 seconds because the game wants to max uptier me. Seeing how I have more games alone in the M1A1 since the LMUR has been added than you’ve used every M1 at that BR in that time frame, I’d quiet down about who should play what. Also, you mean the tank I’m taking into 11.7+ stock? Yeah, struggles when your opponents all have ERA plastered everywhere. Why don’t you take it back out stock seeing how most of your games were over a year ago with it. Also, that is 1000 USES of it of it in a match. It isn’t 1000 matches.

13. Because why do I need to if you segmented your response? Scroll up. And? Is that going to win the fight? If you can pull a flank off but I don’t struggle to kill M18s in my Tiger unless they catch me off guard so :T

14. Most players also blindly hold W and expose their sides and have the situational awareness of a plant so I would take the “the Russian MBTs suck” with a massive mine of salt.

15. Well, the Challanger 2 doesn’t keep the propellant in the turret nor has blow out panels for the turret ammo hold so congrats on bringing up something that has no factor in it. You going to point out that the T-80BVM doesn’t hold ammo in the turret too?

16. The only British tanks you’re doing well in is the Challanger DS and the Vickers Mk 7

17. if you aren’t getting at least a kill per match in these tanks when spaded and at your level, I would argue that you probably need to change tactics or find another game. So yes, getting barely 1KD is pretty abysmal. My most used tank is the Class 3P at 9.0 and most used plane is the Ki-200. IDk who you’re looking up for those stats you’re looking at seeing how jets make up 10 out of the first 15 top used planes (top being Ki-200) and Cold War takes up 11 of the top 15 used tanks (top being the Class 3 (P)). Unless you mean my recent games where I’m grinding the minor nations out?

18. Wow, the top-of-the-line tank from 2020 fighting tanks it was designed to counter IRL that are limited in what they have (or even retired before it entered service) does well… that would be like bragging you killed a MiG 21 in a F-15 xD Also seeing how you’re doing so much better with Russian tanks, does that not show that they are better? Or are you going to spin this around of somehow you just performed badly in the Abrams because enter reason? Also, not as if you can’t just driver, engine on the T series even when hitting the LFP or get eaten by volumetric when you hit the turret ring (done plenty of times where it gets eaten at the hull/turret space).

19. Brother… you’re negative in the TURMS. Like how is that even possible? You’re fighting tanks from the 70s in that thing xD

20. Does that negate the stats for your Russian and US tanks? And literally, you’re barely positive in them except for like one or two offs. Idk what you’re trying to argue here.

21. Did I ever say the 2A5 is the most used? Objectively speaking, you’re 3.5 times more likely to have seen the 2A5 than the HC over the lifetime of the tanks. In April, the TT HC was used 148,530 times while the German TT 2A5 was seen 322,160 times. You were 2.17 times more likely to see the 2A5 than the HC.

22. match making. The T90A can perform just fine being moved up with 3BM60 instead of being at 11.0.

23. 3BM60. Did find out the TXX/Type 10 and Strv 112B+ stop it at the top of their hull so they’re closer to how it is to fight T-series tanks (funny that I just KNOW you complain about them).

24. I can see why the Leclerc struggles and is barely used then. I’ll add that to the list of bugs to report soon.

[H_ngma]

@ww2planes

but does that disprove that Russian tanks are also far stronger than NATO countries?

Not that alone but it’s kinda clear statistics wise. Russian winrates were abysmal when the IRIS SLM got added and the tanks were the same just CAS suddenly had counterplay. In the same realm russian winrates only got to the current ridiculous state after the Pantsir SM SV got added or when the MI28NM got its LMURs. Both times the tanks were the same. And the tanks themselves are really not that special statistics wise compared to others.
The underlying problem is once again people lobbing together ”NATO tanks“ into one argument.

[ww2planes]

To be fair, when you add a new mechanic, it’s going to drop the WR. Hell, I remember the IRIS-T intercepting anti air missiles like it was going out of style so it just reversed the CAS meta xD. As for ground stats, they all stayed pretty similar and was starting to revert back right before the LMUR was added, because that was in October irrc (except the T-90M. that KD is all over the place xD but I guess at the same time, the TT M1s were barely being played. Looking at the month to money really does show how little action the TT Abrams get. The premium HC and clickbait get the same amount of matches as all the TT combined in April26).