Actually they’re not DoA.
I introduce you to a new conspiracy theory.
The main reason for the addition of the new pantsir is the immanent addition of SEAD missiles.
Because the only nation that would benefit from this addition right now is rusia, lol.
They were never lackluster.
You’re forgetting that Ka-50/52 were ruling the battlefields through those years with broken damage model and firing multiple vikhr’s at the same time, no one was safe during that time and they’re still quite competitive with Mi-28NM.
In fact LMUR is the only AGM missile that has correct loft profile fired from helicopter, meanwhile SPIKES,AGM-179,BA-11,PARS-3 and CM-502KG still suffers from trash lofting projectile.
9 Likes
Can you put like a comparison to surviving a LMUR / Kh-38 and getting killed?
survived 1 , died to 999
On the note of NATO not having a KH38 Analog may i introduce you to the AGM-142 Popeye. Which in every measurable respect is the KH38MT with the minor caveat that it actually exists and has exited since 1984. Top speed of 2.2M, warhead weight of 300kg+ blast frag, range of around 100km or more, IR+IOG+GNSS, carried by the following platforms and likely more
F4, F16, F15, F111C, F18 (tested in the USA never adopted) and the SU30MKI
You’re forgetting that Popeye is not NATO standart munition and even Israel jets can carry very limited amount of them.
In terms of capabilities it matches but in quantity side its still falls behind.
initially.
I mean after everyone got F&F in the form of Spikes, they were kind of weaker.
But considering the fixed wing CAS and the fact that pantsir S1 would already somewhat deal with the spike spam, it was fine and LMURs were still unjustified anyway
They became weaker until recently.
Even when Spike missile was added to Italy,France and Israel Vikhr was still superior due to its speed,range,proxy mode and bein able to precisely target the enemy units.
Only with the addition of multi launcher SAM systems and LMUR made it them bit weaker, still at 12.0 Ka-52 still doesnt have any proper rival.
3 Likes
Only for good player. For average player any FnF missile is much better than any manual guided one.
ah mk1
1 Like
Vikhr didn’t required any special skill up until the recent additions, any person that had more than two braincell could make it work quite effectively.
With Hellfires? Lmao.
And If you think you can hunt Any semi decent ka-52 player with those starstreaks I got bad news for you.
Even before new spaa it had same stat as bvm which is pretty sad for its cost. Either it was weak or it was difficult for the average player.
Hellfires are pretty good missiles when you use them only vs mbt/ifv and have other missile vs any other threat (plane/heli/spaa).
Map dependent. And since when is the strength of a helicopter determined solely by its strength in a duel with a helicopter?
Hellfires are pretty trash compare to vikhr missiles due to their flight path and speed, not to mention single smoke render them useless even if the enemy lost its mobility.
Overall package is still superior in Ka52 if you want to talk about that.
It offers better laser guided missiles, can carry unguided rockets,A2G munitions and A2A missiles at the same time.
30MM cannon offers superior balistic and penetration while it has more countermeasures has advanced IRCM and similiar flight performance.
So what were you saying again?
Bad news for the Ka52 pilot. Starstreaks are the strongest anti heli missiles on any of the BR12.0 range helis in game. Twice the speed of the vikhrs which are really hard to hit at ranges where their booster is out and the target is below proxy fuze height. Until you have scored a direct hit with the vikhr at >6km range youre dead 5 times to the starstreak.
Still doesnt make the Ah mk1 better than the ka52 overall, since as you said correctly, it just has a way better loadout vs ground, can defend itself better vs jets bc of laserbeam 30 mm and vikhrs and has better a2g loadout. But in heli vs heli combat with skilled pilots i bet on the ah mk1 every day of the week. They just shine in different aspects and both are simply dead if they face any 13.0 heli with very slim chances to at least trade. (But even there id give higher chances to the Ah mk1 because of the vastly superior speed of the starstreaks, before it gets downed itself)
Compensated by damage and ability to spam missiles without 3sec window. Again vikhres are better missile overall but when we look only on heli vs mbt perfomance then they are ± on par.
I want to say that you greatly underestimate starstreak that turn useless longbow apache in one of best helis in game. At least before they introduced ldircm helis. Now pretty much every heli useless except 13.0 ones.
First and almost Starstreaks looses ranged engagements against Vikhr missiles (10km vs7km at best) second unlike Vikhr that has proxy fuze starstreak requires direct hit on enemy air unit which makes it inferior overall.
1 Like
Damage? Lmao.
Both missiles has similiar damage output while on paper Hellfires penetrates more but because of its flightpath most of the time it doesnt make too much difference.
If you need more than two missiles to kill single ground unit I have bad news for you.
I also have ah mk1 with starstreaks and I exactly know its weaknesses, if both pilot has same skill levels Ka52 will win the engagement 8/10 times.
Due to their nature starstreaks require higher skill ceiling.
Well true, but if you think you will hit a 10 km vikhr shot (thats at least 17 seconds flight time of which the last 6 to 7 are wobbling like crazy without booster) and during all that time the apache gets a laserwarning ive got news for you. If he goes below 40 to 50 m youll also need a direct hit. And if you launch at him from a range where your hit probability is somewhat decent (5 to 7 km) his missiles reach you in half the time and youre just dead. How do i know this? Ive played enough heli pvp matches back in the day where the nowadays 13.0 helis werent an issue and the vikhrs could be ripple fired and were easier to guide. And still the ah mk1s slapped and ended up top of the leaderboard almost every match in the rare cases someone played them.
Dont expect every heli pilot to fly like a lobotomized ka50 user and just climb to 500 m, ignore all laserwarnings for 20 seconds and die to a proxy fuze missile.
180mm damage preset makes a big diff.
Hellfire one-shot most of the time without need to aim for weak spots like with vikhres.
Hellfire spam with 2-4sec interval is very useful vs few close targets or when target moves between covers.
Only vs planes. They are easier to use vs spaa. Same vs heli.
The outcome of this fight is mostly dictated by the map. And I still don’t understand why a helicopter becomes worse if it loses in a heli duel, although it is better in some other aspects like, for example, against spaa.
My current loadout on the f/a18e(best american cas) is 4 slams(same range as kh38mt with less than half the speed) 1 agm65e and 1 agm65f(both of which are mavericks which are crap ingame as we all know) 6 missiles all of which are way worse than kh38mt.
You know you can just bait him to waste all of his missiles by staying between 7-7.2km right? Then you can just come closer to finish his job easily if you concern about distance that much. Not to mention above 7km ranges Apache has no chance to touch you while Ka-52 at least has some chances.
As for the LWS both platform has that feature as well.
As I’ve said before in 1vs1 scenario Apache requires higher skill ceiling to win the battle.
Good joke, sadly its cheap.
Very niche and spesific scenario where hellfire “might” have advantage.
Wrong, starstreaks doesnt fuze enemy SPAA nor helicopter missiles in Mexican standoff which makes it inferior against other threats, as for stealthy approach both missile does the job just fine.
Not just heli duel but overall package is still better in Ka52.
If you cant accept the facts than its your issue, not mine.