Nah, just playing against them and not letting anything bother me
So in other words you have no idea what you’re talking about while throwing empty tantrums.
Gotcha
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No, I just don’t cry over the vehicles, I learn how to deal with them and win, but I must be wrong. Though at least out of the last 10 battles at 13.0 playing as the Americans, I’ve won 8
Oh, and before you go and check my status again, yes, I have almost all the negative stats and I’m pretty rubbish at playing on the ground
Damn dude thats so cool, if you do that like 50000 more times your heroic deeds can single handedly turn the tide in top tier.
Or we can just acknowledge that Gaijin screwed up the balance and let them fix their game so you can go touch grass instead of playing 500000 games.
Grass is always greener on the other side until you step in buddy. Thats why you should think twice before talking to someone who walks on both side.
I also won most of my games while playing multiple nations including Russia and USA but this doesn’t prove anything.
Overall WR’s are clear as day, starting from 10.0 Russia is the only nation that holds 50+ percent win rate until the top tier, while other nations barely stratch the surface, guess other nation players must be suck right?
I don’t care about your stats as long as you don’t start piss content.
The game balance is bad because this guy is wearing a Che Guevara shirt? U sure bout that?
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6 is plenty enough
Heck my most played CAS plane at top tier also has 6 missiles, and they go half as slow
Games are supposed to be fun. I don’t think anyone at top tier other than those only playing russia are having fun.
They have to hand hold obsolete MBTs to death to make them work, but they do so in the most frustrating way possible (inconsistant side shots, breach undamaged…)
It is when it has impacts on game balance (like pantsir 95ya6m still being Mach 3+ at its max range), or the manpads example.
Carry a mix of 8+16 or 7+24 and you are all set (not to mention the replenishment box).
And at least you have anti-ammunition missiles, like are you seriously trying to sell the strong point of this AA as a hindrance ?
Go play IRIS-T “can’t touch LDIRCM heli simulator” SLM or any other non russian AA (JPN + NATO + CHN + ISR) “Multipath + drag chute attached to missile simulator 3000” and tell me if the grass is greener on the other side.
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I’m on the same side as you I’m US main, but I just think what they’re saying is an exaggeration because I feel comfortable with the new panstir, both in planes and helicopters
Surviving against it is somewhat easy yes
But capability wise it’s far better than any other AAs, so its addition was still unjustified.
Getting munitions on target is also quite hard now, assuming the enemy pantsir isn’t eating crayons
There’s a very clear reason why the Russians were limited to 12 or 24 missiles for a long time against aircraft that alone carried 16 Spice and Brimstone missiles, or 6 Maverick missiles plus Gnss bombs, basically, NATO countries could overwhelm any Russian air defence system, but the Russians could only fire a maximum of 8; just think how ridiculous the Apache E was against a old Pantsir on its own it had more missiles than the Pantsir, whilst the Mi-28 has 8 Lamurs and any NATO air defence system has more than 12 missiles.
I think the point he was making is Russia appears to get an overstep in the missing capability. Pre original pantsir, NATO held the range advantage, then the Pantsir showed up with fast missiles and the furthest range. Now like you said Russia was lacking in munition interception, so they get the absolute best in that category.
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The original Pantsir was completely useless once the Eurofighters entered the game with Brimstones and then the Apache E. Both the Buk and the Pantsir clearly fell behind to deny this is to deny reality
You still miss the point. The Eurofighter punished ANY team it fought against, regardless of what nations it was facing. Take Brimstones out of the equation and the Pantsir still does extremely well. So your thought process is to continually grant Russia overstepped capabilities just because a plane exists? Why not nerf the plane for the sake of EVERYONE facing it?
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Back then the 2 best AAs were ITO and Pantsir S1
ITO had 8 missiles
S1 had 12 with guns.
Russian helis were lackluster, but it was compensated by a great fixed wing CAS. You could only intercept 2 to 3 KH 38 MT with ITO (reasonably). Keep in mind ITO could only be found in minor nations trees, so they weren’t common.
So all in all : asymetric balance.
Fast forward to Long and medium range SAMs, russia now has Buk (12 ready to fire, 12 in stock), while most NATO sams have 16 + 16. A small advantage, but BUK was far better in every other category (warhead, maximum speed, maximum range, and possibility to be independant from the main radar). It was one of the few AAs that was balanced, since it was also held back by the same problems plaguing most NATO AAs : multipath and helicopters.
Fast forward again, NATO starts getting planes with SPICE bombs that can overwhelm these systems. Next thing you know, the perfect counter arrives the next patch, with Gaijin stating explicitely that the BUK was, i quote “underperforming”
One can legitimely ask where the counter to KH38MTs were when we needed them, and why a Buk with 12+12 missiles is underperforming against aircrafts with large payloads while a HQ11 with just 8+8, Spyder also with 8+8, Nasams with 12+12 Type 03 with 12+12 aren’t (spoiler alert : they are, but Gaijin prefers attending to russia first).
The handholding and double standards are quite obvious here
Yes and no; I’ve seen ITOs destroy 6 KH-38s, and I’ve personally using ADATS destroy 6 KH-38s. It depends on where the missile is coming from, the distance, and other factors.
It’s possibly a few missiles, problems with the multipatch, helicopters with 16 fire-and-forget missiles all capable of taking out the Buk quickly
Does it exist? I don’t think NATO actually has anything like the KH-38. NATO operates at full capacity with bombs and cruise missiles, all of which are slower than the KH-38. The only thing capable of such capabilities is the SEAD armament, which shouldn’t be long in arriving.
Maybe today, but do you think you can still destroy the first salvo of 8 Lmurs? The Russians couldn’t even manage to destroy the first salvo of 16 AGM-179s until the new Panstir
And does NATO have any anti-aircraft systems like the Pantsir? I don’t think so either the doctrines are different and this becomes more apparent at the top tier. The important thing is to understand this and to learn and exploit every advantage
Considering the max speed and the not fire and forget nature of VT-1, the average time needed for a KH38MT has to travel from 15-12km, that is mathematically impossible.
The only way this scenario is possible is if the launcher decided to go 20km and beyond, which considering the spawn range at the time (14km if memory serves) would be a deliberate (and quite frankly not very smart) action from the enemy player.
You are aware KH38 in its F&F variant does not exist either, right ? Best we have is a mock up and a brochure stating they planned on putting a Gen 1 Seeker head inside (you know the blurry ones and not the ultre HD 4k you can enjoy in game while carrying KH38’s…)
By counter i was also talking about SPAAs
Regarding SEAD missiles, i’ll let you know KH38 was added a few years ago already, so excuse me for laughing at the “shouldn’t be long in arriving” part.
As seen above with a full salvo of KH38MT, neither could other nations. Should they ? That’s a question for the CAS balance topics
NATO doctrine also does not imply bringing your entire SAM battery 750m to a front line, i will also let you know one entire battery is usually 4 to 6 launchers, not limited to 2 like in game. NATO doctrine also does not include, among other things : fox-3 failing to lock helicopters, multipath, and drag chute integrated to their missiles
The NATO equivalent of Pantsir is having air superiority. So realistically in game it would translate by : giving SEAD weapons + giving first spawn with full AAM loadout to NATO only countries. Sounds fun yet, or can we drop the “doctrine” argument already ?
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The conversation has taken a different turn; the issue is no longer whether Panstir is a strong air defence system, but rather that NATO countries lack certain capabilities.
It depends on the attack; if he fires the 6 in quick succession at 15 km, you can destroy the 6 in 10 seconds
Of course this topic is relevant, because if you’re going to argue that a system that was already in the game was strong and that the new one wasn’t necessary, we need to discuss it, but I don’t think it’s convenient.
The same applies to Buk.
That’s a good idea, but we need to make suggestions rather than just complaining about a vehicle
They’re already in the game, modelled, and just need a few tweaks here and there, so I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be added to the game soon
With the new pantsir they’re DoA
Nope
10s is barely enough to reach the first KH38. VT-1 just isn’t fast enough to do what you describe, let alone Adats missile
And instead of fixing it for all AAs including Buk, what did Gaijin do ? Pantsir SM SV : one nation fix only
Even if they arrived in march 2026 (last patch), they would have been 2-3 years late
Apart from the fact that I wanted to make an unreasonable argument to point out the flaw in the “doctrine” logic, suggestions and bug reports usually stay dead for years, so it won’t fix anything anyway.
I did not say it was irrelevant.
All i said is :
- KH38 volley could not be shot down or countered => Gaijin lets it rot for 2 years
- SPICE volley can not be countered => Gaijin add a SPAA that can counter it for russia only and let the rest rot.
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The nation with the least ground-attack armament; the Gaijin has never been particularly well-balanced overall. The thing is, the Panzer SM is killed off relatively easily you just have to adapt and play.
I don’t disagree I think it should be in the game, just as the original panther was added
I think you’re overreacting, but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion