Im not saying ARH guidance would be worse, but in most instances it is because of multipathing. Yes SACLOS is cheaper but its also not as susceptible to jamming, multipathing, or countermeasures and theyre mainly used on close range systems like the Tor and Pantsirs.
Artifical gimping isnt fully to blame for longer range sam systems not being able to utilize their advantage of longer range if most maps dont allow them to use that advantage.
I was specifically saying no countries have a “Pantsir equivalent” and that the Pantsir is unique. Compared to every country having some form of SAM system that operates basically the same in terms of use.
Imagine if all NATO LINK16 capable systems could communicate and share targeting data for datalinks.
Helis + Jets + AA all sharing radar contacts like they should be able to.
the effect of jamming is not something we can judge, if the missile is fired guided by the irst that is relevant insofar as we can make good guesses but when guided by the radar its not something we know(Electronic warfare is just about the most classified part of modern warfare), multipath is not a concern for modern missiles, nor are countermeasures at large, chaff, flares and bol have shown to not be of much effect against modern missiles in pretty much ever modern conflict.
it absolutely is, ARH guidance in general is butchered, and in alot of cases its also kinematics that are butchered, the buk has incredibly kinematics but it still sucks cause ARH is just THAT terrible ingame. and for other systems that have awful kinematics its even worse. not even mentioning how terrible radars are at top tier, anyone who used a buk or a claws/nasams will tell you that theyre essentially non functional insofar as providing datalink
But its a known fact SACLOS missles have the advantage of being much more resistant to jamming sonce there relying on LOS. Also nothing you said implies that SACLOS missles should be preforming worse then they are in game, this only implies ARH missles should be on par with these systems. And ARH are susceptible to electronic warfare, dont need to declassify anything to deduce that.
Might I also add that if this was the reality for all SAMS currently to be that strong, electronic warfare and other defences for aircraft would have to be introduced. I get what you’re saying, but thats venturing into a whole different realm of where CAS would need to be put on par and the maps are too small to allow for such advancments.
This still does not mean SACLOS missles dont hace their advantages over ARH missles.
I see plenty of jets in the air still for certain nations that don’t face Pantsirs.
Shoot aim9x, your radar is off and they have no rwr
shoot aim120 let it’s guidance do the job not your radar. especially if you are moving. Placebo? Probably.
By the time a BUK has spotted anything its already dead or wasting missles because the aircraft saw it first at a range of ~20kms. This still doesnt mean that SAMS arent already at a disadvantage because of the gap aircraft can close on them.
electronic warfare is not just something you turn on and suddently are immune to missiles. if you want to speculate advantages that have not really showed up in reality you can do so but the supposed “vulnerability to ecw” hasnt stopped ARH missiles to be the most dominant missile kind since its proliferation.
they are cheaper and allow to make guidane smaller, You still need to find the aircraft if the radar is being suppressed by ecw, youre left to IRST, and irst reduces range quite a bit in 99% of situations. its price and form factor.
SM-SV and Irist slm are the only thing that could ever hope to contest a skilled pilot in the current enviroment. and iris t is unlikely to survive the engagement.
and if a mi28nm spawns? might as well j out i youre not in a pantsir
Okay and do we have any ideas on how to balance the game out in that case, because if multipathing, chaffing or flaring arent supposed to give any CAS player a chance at survival or make it slimmer. I dont see why they wouldnt also get capibilites to counter that.
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Omarb13legends:
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You keep saying SACLOS missles are supposed to be worse but youre saying thay ARH missles are supposed to be better than them in-game. You arent making it very clear (too me) if youre saying that SACLOS need to be artificially nerfed or ARH missles need to be buffed. So youre throwing me in a loop right now.
No its not, but its less effective the closer you get to a target. How is this supposed to work of you grant ARH SAMS a very high hit rate with almost 0 susceptiblities if thats naturally going to be the counter.
Small maps wont allow for electronic warfare to be played right is what im trying to say.
Versus a radar only based SAM that doesnt use IRIST tracking if the radar is supressed, thats a huge disadvantage.
It would have a better chance if it had the advantage of range instead of being forced to wait until theyrebwithin 14kms after theyve popped over a hill.
Which is true but in the currrent envrionment as it stands, the average engagement with a plane almost always leaves them in LOS at ranges of 15-20kms long enough that SACLOS missles excel over the SAMS. Purely because everything is almost on small maps and small maps favors a SHORAD like the Pantsir.
The extended range advantages SAMS are supposed to have would mean millions more if there were actually large enough maps tonallow that kind of breathing room but that currently isnt the case
