The complaints were because russian CAS powercrept, and Russia then got a meta SPAA to “fix” the issue. Sound familiar?
Which is objectively false. ARH SAMs are superior in both close and long range engagements.
or just notch and chaff instead of being reliant on skilless “multipathing”
Mach 3.27 @ 36 km traveled. Why is it rated for 40 km? This missile can easily go to 60+ km at that speed. I wonder if it’s overperforming in some way. It is only being bottlenecked by the track radar.
It almost certainly is, but the vehicle is so new it’s almost fake so there’s no way to report it. Gaijin can just make up values and force people to accept it.
No, all CAS powercrept, not just Russia. This has been a trend for all nations for years, just because 1 nation is an offender doesn’t disqualify the others from review.
Objectively, sure. That depends on the SAM and what type it is. If you’re about to tell me the BUKS skyscraper for a missle, or any SAMS for that matter that have their launchers pointed at a 90 degree angle, also with the added spool up time for the SAM to get up to speed, versus a SACLOS missle than an fly right off the rail, directly at it’s target that doesn’t have those hinderences, then we need to reevaluate something.
Congratulations, if Gaijin isn’t going to condense Air RB playersize, then multipathing isn’t going to get lowered in any shape or form. Because why would they do that in a large clusterfuck match, and then why would they try and screw with the spaghetti code to try and only apply it in a specific one off mode
You just conceded his point, nobody cares about what you have sympathy for, the point is that these helicopters are a pretty big problem for ARH/IR based SAMs.
This extends to the disparity problem that this thread is trying to bring attention towards.
Because there’s a disparity issue at hand. It’s hard to make a concise counter argument towards everything you are saying as your entire message seems all over the place but let me put it in simple terms so you can understand.
ARH based SAM systems are currently really good at countering munition spam, in particular for nations outside of Russia and China (because of the TOR, I guess) this came as an upgrade over their previous SACLOS/BR systems because none those had TWS capabilities, however they are just really bad at shooting down anything that flies.
Why is this a disparity issue when it comes to the Pantsir(s)? It’s quite simple really, the Pantsir’s are good at everything, they mix the ability to destroy munition barrages with the ability to shoot down the platforms that launched those barrages in the first place. What this standard implies is that, everyone aside from Russia needs to engage in TEAMPLAY, you know, the thing that nobody does in War Thunder (as in many ways the game discourages it, but that’s a topic for another day).
SACLOS/BR systems in other nations are both range limited and TWS limited, which means they are incredibly vulnerable without ARH system coverage, and on the other hand, ARH systems are vulnerable to anything that can fly close to the ground. Pantsir’s can do all of it on their own, there’s literally nothing they can’t shoot down due to the physical limits of their system. That’s why it is unfair and of course it was already unfair before the SM-SV because of the S1 but now it’s even worse.
Brother every single F/F tracking munition in game requires LOS on the aircraft side, this is not really a weakness compared to ARH because at some point your enemy has to show up either way to become a threat to you aside from the fact that ARH is even worse since the aircraft can simply hug the ground in order to not care about your missile.
Yes, that’s is the point, because they are supposed to be more effective than SACLOS. It is ultimately a balance issue, because nobody aside from Russia has a capable SACLOS system and literally everyone has ARHs. Everyone gets to have effective AAs, hurray! Why the hell would you even question this.
I highly doubt the upgraded variant of the original missle is overpreforming, especially when it’s meant to take out hypersonic missles.
It very well could be bottlenecked by the track radar since it’s not an ARH missile.
lol. This was in the days of AGM65 vs Kh38. Don’t even try.
I would recommend reviewing the brochure for sky sabre:
Pantsir missiles cannot guide until the main booster has burnt out, which is already beyond the minimum range of western VL VSHORAD systems like IRIS-T and CAMM. This is part of why it’s forced to have guns.
We’ve already established they can do this on a missile by missile basis and air rb has no relevance whatoever.
You say that, but we don’t know for sure. Gaijin can just make up any stats, and they won’t disclose any sources or how they tuned this thing; they can make it up to whatever standard of performance they want.
I didn’t say helicopters weren’t a problem, that’s a whole different can of worms to get into.
My point with the LOS was that it’s not hard to break LOS of the Pantsir and most planes in game have weapons that are FnF anyways so they aren’t forced to maintain LOS to use them, they pop up and then dive away.
Because then that will seriously throw off the balance of CAS at that rate if you’re guaranteed a hit without having to maintain sight if they pop up on your radar for just a few seconds.
“Why the hell are you questioning this”
I dunno know, maybe because if that becomes a reality, CAS is going to have to get more things to counter this and the core game design will once again be overlooked in all of this as capibilites are the only focus on everyones mind.
How much more modern capibilites are we going to keep cramming onto these maps until it reaches a breaking point?
This applies to a lot of modern stuff currently added regardless.
I like how the Pantsir SMV damage model is basically OP above the hull
Okay, that’s a mute point if your idea is to put this as a disadvantage compared to ARH as they suffer from the same exact counter-play? In fact the only way this becomes a particular disadvantage of SACLOS is by removing MP.
As far as we are all concerned, capabilities will continue to increase until Gaijin just runs out of content to add, what you are trying to avoid is inevitable. The whole problem right now is disparity between nations, Russia owns the CAS monopoly, the balance of CAS is already disrupted by the presence of the Pantsir.
Don’t even try? CAS has been a hot topic for a long time my guy. This isn’t just a “It’s only Russia” issue.
If that’s the case for the Sky Sabre, than great, but I don’t imagine this extends to every single sam currently in game.
Isn’t that roughly for 2-3 seconds and the missle can still maunever to a decent degree right after launch so this isn’t a severly limiting factor.
It has relevance in this case because the question is how Gaijin is going to code individual weapons to work differently in a different game mode. That sounds like uneccessary work and changes they make are usually universal. That is the reason I brought Air Rb up.
Gaijin simply doesn’t care about game balance anymore. They give Russia basically a spam fire FNF munition interceptor (because of datalink), with the best SACLOS missile in the game, but it would be too much of a stretch to give typhoons with its 5km effective range Brimstones, an upgrade to even just Brimstone 2 SAL to counter Russian spaa
Playerbase inherently doesn’t care about balance to some degree ethier. Or everything would’ve kept up with eachother over the years instead of the lopsided incrimental upgrades CAS has gotten over SPAA with the progressing years that’s led up to this.
Remember people were asking for HARMS before the multi vehicle sams were even added.
Doesn’t mean the russian ones weren’t FAR better at the time I was talking about.
SAMP/T can use MICA VL, IRIS-T is IRIS-T…
Much more severe than the NATO definition of VSHORAD of 1km
SAMs don’t share weapons with aircraft. Like at all. In the code a weapon can either be under rocketweapons (for aircraft) or under groundmodel_weapons (for tanks). SAMs with aircraft weapons have duplicate code.
Yes, I remember that happened when Gaijin introduced the Pantsir S1 as a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. It’s almost like they created the original disparity issue that brought up all of this in the first place.
I’m not saying they weren’t far better, but just because 1 nation has something far better doesn’t mean the other nations weren’t already in offending territory (because they were, just nobody cared because it was easier to blame Russia than solve the overarching problem)
Maybe I’ll have to look at footage and read some documents, all I’m saying is that a plane within 2kms with a missle that outaccelerates most others is going to hit target before the western SAMS do, and if they really can fire at targets within 1km that effectively (better than an Aim9x we currently have essentially) then alright.
Gotcha.
But then your first statement is hypocritical; most Western SACLOS missiles have been underperforming for ages, most notably Roland 2/3 and VT-1. When OSA was released, it was equipped with a missile that should perform equally to Roland 3 in real life, yet the latter does not. Roland missiles have a tendency to overcorrect and lose energy too quickly, same with VT-1 (Which are rated to 30G for almost 8 and 10 km, but can’t pull more than 12G at that distance in game)
It’s the same situation with Pantsir SM, it received a missile that beats everyone out of the water, and it is seemingly too perfectly implemented while every other Western missile has to deal with inefficiencies that Gaijin won’t address.
Just asking for some parity here, that’s all.
I wouldn’t say “didn’t exist”, it got to a point where 1 or 2 interactions drained a Pantsirs missle supply before they added ammo crates and even with ammo crates. it was a struggle. Again CAS mains really did not care much about things balance wise, because this trend has gone on for years.