They sadly won’t for a while, unless they add Anti-Radiation missiles but then again, the Pantsir SM-SV would still be annoying to destroy because of the amount of missiles you can put on the thing.
The Pantsir literally won’t care about ARMs
Can confirm this is true
I dont think any of the SAM’s will really care tbh. Pretty sure the largest ARM load seen on jets is 6x, and more often than not, its 2x, so they arent gonna be oversaturating the GBAD. They arent notably faster than Kh-38M’s either, so if you’re able to deal with Kh-38M’s, congrats, you’re able to deal with ARM’s.
Might give some nations something to rifle off at close range though instead of relying on GPS bombs for SEAD
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Ngl the advantage Japan had against Russia with their Su30MKM with KH38 died when Russia got the pantsir SMSV. It was a good thing before to have a check on Russia but at the same time I hate CAS in general so lose win situation I guess.
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It would really depend on the BRs that would get ARMs (and which ones would be available)
I still don’t think ARMs should be added in general, as the weaker top tier SAMs already have a bad enough time lol
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This is likely why Electronic Warfare will become a thing, how will they balance that however is the big question.
That so?
Well, them dropping it to account for small maps would again, only be seen as a short-sighted decision instead of fixing the issue of small maps.
I
Again, that’s an issue of playerbase asking for more CAS stuff and creating their own problems they didn’t care about until it got bad enough, so I have no sympathy for that.
“2-3 business days” wasn’t an argument before this new Pantsir was added, or before the previous Pantsir was added, there was still AA in the game that used LOS that could reliably destroy helicopters.
Tell me why they would remove multipathing entirely when it’s an actual factor when it comes to ARH missles, just beause SACLOS based sams aren’t affected by this and the argument is only brought up because of the newest Pantsir when other SAMs had these systems way before the larger SAMS were added to the game.
I don’t know why you’re trying to close the gap in capibilites by eliminating factors that effect specific weapons that defines what their strengths and weaknesses are.
The SM-SV has to maintain LOS so that is a weakness, the 40kms range doesn’t matter because you can easily break it with terrain masking or force the missle to the groun with it’s leading if you maintain high top speed.
Effectively the only thing you do is make ARHs more effective than SACLOS missles if you removed multipathing all together because acceleration and top speed inherently does not matter if you’ve just guaranteed a hit with a weapon you don’t have to maintain sight to use.
Essentialy, if you’re dumb enough to apply tactics on dodging ARH missles to SACLOS missles, and you’re killed at 35kms out, that is 100% on the player. I’ve seen way too many people doing that.
Only works if you’ve been chaffing before they actually got a lock.
Yes because back then helicopter missiles also took 2-3 business days to reach their target and you couldn’t just pop up, fire 16, and drop, making good time to target critical to having ANY kill chance.
Not for modern ones.
You are not gonna believe how it is irl…
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Last time I cheked, planes didn’t spawn close enough Irl to take away the western SAMS advantage of RANGE over the Shorads advantage of CLOSE range.
They still work against modern ones, but that’s with a combination of ECCM and low level flying, we don’t have ECCM in game yet.
Before any of the Pantsirs yes, after the S-1 was added? No.
2-3 years later here we are
Multipathing has literally no effect on modern SAMs. CAMM is even rated to engage surface targets.
Are you suggesting SACLOS>ARH at long range? Or at short range? Because both of those are false.
And people rightfully complained about the S1, if you check the original post in this thread it highlights that.
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Now it’s 4 seconds. You have 4 seconds on first RWR hit to drop chaff and dodge the pantsir missile.
This is at the FAR heli spawn.
Pantsirs always had an advantage seeing through trees with the radar now it’s just worse because helis are too slow to dodge the hypersonic missile.
If you’re too low the missiles don’t fuse on trees. So it just goes through trees. IF you’re too high you can’t move. Fighting pantsirs (and buks) is damn annoying.
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They complained because CAS powercrept and now something got added to somewhat nullify it, and here we are once again.
Sigh
I said western SAMS. Western SAMS that rely on ARH or IR, not SACLOS…
I’m not saying one is stronger than the other outright, I’m saying one is stronger than the other in very specific scenarios. Right now multi vehicle SAMS that use ARH can’t fully rely on this. The IRIST gets the benifit since it uses IR as a combination.
If that’s the case, then ECCM measures would have to be added on most planes since that almost means a guaranteed kill every time from farther than the Pantsir can reach, that still doesn’t mean multipathing won’t work or still won’t be effective to a degree
The complaints were because russian CAS powercrept, and Russia then got a meta SPAA to “fix” the issue. Sound familiar?
Which is objectively false. ARH SAMs are superior in both close and long range engagements.
or just notch and chaff instead of being reliant on skilless “multipathing”
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Mach 3.27 @ 36 km traveled. Why is it rated for 40 km? This missile can easily go to 60+ km at that speed. I wonder if it’s overperforming in some way. It is only being bottlenecked by the track radar.
It almost certainly is, but the vehicle is so new it’s almost fake so there’s no way to report it. Gaijin can just make up values and force people to accept it.
No, all CAS powercrept, not just Russia. This has been a trend for all nations for years, just because 1 nation is an offender doesn’t disqualify the others from review.
Objectively, sure. That depends on the SAM and what type it is. If you’re about to tell me the BUKS skyscraper for a missle, or any SAMS for that matter that have their launchers pointed at a 90 degree angle, also with the added spool up time for the SAM to get up to speed, versus a SACLOS missle than an fly right off the rail, directly at it’s target that doesn’t have those hinderences, then we need to reevaluate something.
Congratulations, if Gaijin isn’t going to condense Air RB playersize, then multipathing isn’t going to get lowered in any shape or form. Because why would they do that in a large clusterfuck match, and then why would they try and screw with the spaghetti code to try and only apply it in a specific one off mode
You just conceded his point, nobody cares about what you have sympathy for, the point is that these helicopters are a pretty big problem for ARH/IR based SAMs.
This extends to the disparity problem that this thread is trying to bring attention towards.
Because there’s a disparity issue at hand. It’s hard to make a concise counter argument towards everything you are saying as your entire message seems all over the place but let me put it in simple terms so you can understand.
ARH based SAM systems are currently really good at countering munition spam, in particular for nations outside of Russia and China (because of the TOR, I guess) this came as an upgrade over their previous SACLOS/BR systems because none those had TWS capabilities, however they are just really bad at shooting down anything that flies.
Why is this a disparity issue when it comes to the Pantsir(s)? It’s quite simple really, the Pantsir’s are good at everything, they mix the ability to destroy munition barrages with the ability to shoot down the platforms that launched those barrages in the first place. What this standard implies is that, everyone aside from Russia needs to engage in TEAMPLAY, you know, the thing that nobody does in War Thunder (as in many ways the game discourages it, but that’s a topic for another day).
SACLOS/BR systems in other nations are both range limited and TWS limited, which means they are incredibly vulnerable without ARH system coverage, and on the other hand, ARH systems are vulnerable to anything that can fly close to the ground. Pantsir’s can do all of it on their own, there’s literally nothing they can’t shoot down due to the physical limits of their system. That’s why it is unfair and of course it was already unfair before the SM-SV because of the S1 but now it’s even worse.
Brother every single F/F tracking munition in game requires LOS on the aircraft side, this is not really a weakness compared to ARH because at some point your enemy has to show up either way to become a threat to you aside from the fact that ARH is even worse since the aircraft can simply hug the ground in order to not care about your missile.
Yes, that’s is the point, because they are supposed to be more effective than SACLOS. It is ultimately a balance issue, because nobody aside from Russia has a capable SACLOS system and literally everyone has ARHs. Everyone gets to have effective AAs, hurray! Why the hell would you even question this.
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I highly doubt the upgraded variant of the original missle is overpreforming, especially when it’s meant to take out hypersonic missles.
It very well could be bottlenecked by the track radar since it’s not an ARH missile.
lol. This was in the days of AGM65 vs Kh38. Don’t even try.
I would recommend reviewing the brochure for sky sabre:
Pantsir missiles cannot guide until the main booster has burnt out, which is already beyond the minimum range of western VL VSHORAD systems like IRIS-T and CAMM. This is part of why it’s forced to have guns.
We’ve already established they can do this on a missile by missile basis and air rb has no relevance whatoever.
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