@Xermaz
14km F&F radar missiles at a BR where engagement range is <16km is potentially equal, yes; though that isn’t my own take.
You’re not facing other SPAA, you’re facing aircraft. So comparing the SPAA directly to each other would be inappropriate.
It’s why you compare them to the CAS they have to deal with.
This post of mine also isn’t speaking about Pantsir.
Though Pantsir is better than Tan-SAM Kai against helicopters.
oh wait, you actually serious?
ok then tell me, how do i beat Mi-28NM. or actually to be more “fair” how do i beat Ka-52 with Tan SAM Kai, since we know that 28NM is overkill against it.
You’re moving the goalpost.
Instead of agreeing with me that helicopter LDIRCM is OP, you’re creating a post to defend them instead…
DIRCM needs to be corrected, and cherry picking an entire broken vehicle class currently is not the gotcha you think it is.
man i thought you said Tan SAM Kai is equal to Pantsir? but what is this? it somehow cannot shot down helis unlike pantsir?
Then don’t move the goalpost next time.
Me: “Fixed wing CAS.”
Meanwhile you moved the goalposts to the helicopters I demand get fixed.
i guess helicopter is not aircraft anymore huh? and still, nice way to move goalpost there
no i don’t, i never put any goalpost. i put your goalpost into the test, you directly said that Tan SAM Kai is equal to Pantsir.
so i put it to the test against the nemesis of FNF, helicopter. Pantsir, like any other SACLOS SPAA can face against helicopter even 13.0 fixed wing with Kh-38s. but nah, it’s definitely equal to Pantsir
@Xermaz
You never mentioned fixed wing CAS in any of your posts, so you never once “tested a goalpost”.
You made up a strawman argument to argue against, project that invented argument onto me, then expect me to argue your invented position for you.
And yes, aircraft in that context was 11.7 - 12.0 fixed wing CAS. Always has been.
And yes, against F-111F and Tornado IDS, the Pantsir and Tan-SAM Kai are equally effective.
Edit:
Oh yeah, you didn’t even mention 12.0 helicopters. You mentioned 13.0 helicopters which is even more of a movement of goalposts than just moving from fixed wing.
yo, um can you explain further your thoughts around the pantsir => tan sam situation?
yes? because it’s not my argument, it’s yours. Tan SAM Kai is struggle against any aircraft because the radar sucks, more so to Helicopter.
oh great you putting it against the weaker aircraft. now tell me how how about Tan SAM Kai vs Pantsir against F-4F KWS? because Pantsir can easily kill all AGM and the CAS.
oh wow, i didn’t know that Ka-52 is 13.0 and i never move the goalpost, you said AIRCRAFT, i said Helicopter, which is still an aircraft
Both are 12.0 SPAA whose purpose is to deal with 12.0 CAS, usually fixed wing.
F-111F/C can defeat Pantsir with decently quick training, but the tactics used to defeat Pantsir gets you fragged by TanSAM Kai and EldE. And defeating Tan SAM Kai & EldE makes you more vulnerable to Pantsir & ITO-90M.
@Xermaz
The Pantsir and Tan SAM Kai are 12.0, so the aircraft they are to be compared to are 12.0 in BR, in this conversation fixed-wing specifically.
Which includes 11.7 CAS because 12.0 lineups exist.
yes F-4F KWS LV is 12.0, tell me how both Pantsir and Tan SAM Kai fair against 2 AGM-65D/G
not sure what you are refering to here, f4 kws is not a good cas plane, but more of a fighter i think
Just going to put this out there and I don’t want to start anything by it but tbh they both definitely can take out ldircm just in two different ways, pantsir can deal with it because of saclos and if the heli pilot isn’t smart and is in the open the tan Sam Kai can deal with it by using the IR missile with the “tv” mode. I was messing around with friends in customs (I know it’s customs and not real matches) and pretty much any IR Sam that has the different seeker modes can kill them even the type 93, I was able to rat about and make him fly high and it works the imaging mode doesn’t care about ldircm
it’s got 2 AGM-65D or G plus AIM-120 and AIM-9Li(basically AIM-9M. it’s a good CAS/CAP for GRB at 12.0
i know, i have them. that’s why i said it’s absurd to say Tan SAM Kai is equal to Pantsir.
you know the weakness of “TV” seeker? clutter and distance. if anything beside your target got included in your seeker, it will not get a lock so that heli hovering 5km near the ground is impossible to lock. same with distance, if your target is far away (more or less >4KM out) it will not get a lock since it need a required size to do so.
You’re still arguing around BR symmetry, but that’s not the core of the issue.
The problem isn’t that Pantsir can intercept munitions it’s that no other SPAA in the game can do it nearly as effectively. Its ability to consistently intercept missiles and glide bombs is on a different level. That capability gap is what creates the imbalance.
And it’s not about whether interception should exist. The issue is that only one system does it reliably — and every player of that nation gets it as their standard SPAA. That’s the asymmetry.
Are you seriously claiming EldE 98 or ITO-90M are comparable in intercept performance against modern guided munitions? They aren’t. They can engage aircraft well, but their consistency against incoming missiles and glide bombs simply doesn’t match Pantsir.
This isn’t about protecting some old 11.7 CAS “standard.” It’s about capability distribution. Right now, the faction with some of the strongest CAS platforms also has the strongest anti-CAS shield on the same team.
The simplest and most logical solution would have been to introduce Pantsir variants for other nations from the moment it entered the game. That would immediately remove the asymmetry without having to reshuffle entire BR brackets.
Japan, France, USA, and USSR are all tied for strongest CAS platforms.
Japan, France, USA, and USSR also have equally strong SPAA systems to deal with fixed wing threats.
Each of them have helicopters immune to the SPAA of other tech trees; HondaCivici will tell us all about how positioning can make even Ka-52 a potent helicopter against ITO-90s, pantsirs, etc based on positioning.
Out of those 4, only USA has a meta ground lineup.
Japan, France, USSR have good ground lineups.
Oplot, 2 Type 10s.
Leclercs & Leopard 2A5+.
T-80BVM & T-90M.
However, they aren’t 7 different meta Abrams options.
Which SPAA’s are equally to the Pantsir?
Pantsir is inferior to the 12.7s against fixed wing aircraft, by far.
don’t bother to be honest. he lived in sunshine and rainbow world.
Pantsir equal to Tan SAM Kai. man i wish it got a fraction of those radar scan speed.