Replace the “free” SPAA with the TOR
If you mean it can shoot behind hills no it can’t, it’s SACLOS meaning it needs to have a direct line of sight to the missiles
If the BR is increased, it will no longer be available to players who haven’t unlocked it, which will reduce the number of Pantsirs in battles. On top of that, aircraft and helicopters at lower BRs will finally be able to play normally without constant pressure from this SPAA.
No, it is capable of detecting targets and guiding missiles even through tree canopies, whereas with laser guidance, missile control is lost.
Just don’t spawn CAS in uptiers?
Pantsir is balanced among the 12.0 CAS present, if it goes up, so would the 12.0 CAS for fairness.
CSSA5 is also another SPAA that is balanced around that.
And if you are playing 12.0, I’d recommend learning the flaws of Pantsir that even Tornado IDS is capable of exploiting.
Any saclos missile launcher is pressure on helos.
Pantsir could stay in 12.0 , main issue is spam of those things.
VT1’s are even faster compared to pantsir, but less range. So Tor would solve this issue, and make people grind for that pantsir.
Now it is just ridiculous that I can keep BUK on lineup, and use free pantsir on smaller maps, when needed without “wasting” slot for it.
If that is the case than you should bug report it, unless the guidance is miss labeled it should require direct LOS between the missile and the guidance unit. I’m looking to see if I can find anything about the Pantsirs IRL guidance, I suspect the missiles may be handed off to “beam riding mode” created by the phased array tracking radar, while the target in the optical sight is SACLOS controlled. but that’s just me guessing at this point.
That is factually incorrect.
95Ya6 is faster than VT1 in game
If you mean when the target is tracked using sight, not the radar, then yes, the missile exclusively flies to the center of the crosshair, as the system has no data about range to the target, so it can’t calculate the lead. It is the same irl for all other SPAA that have tracking without range.
Tho it is not a beam riding mode, it is still clos, just logic changes.
True (50ms)
I remembered wrong that they were fastest AA missiles in game, least on some point even compared to pantsir,
But still VT1’s makes a big ass threat on helos also, just like pantsir.
Main difference is that on flakrad you get 2 of those , on ITO you get 8 on ready rack , compared to 12 on pantsir.>
And to be honest, biggest threat on non LDIRCM helos are spikes.
You get a warning, everytime AA is locking and shooting you , so you can duck, but these little missiles finds you even when you dive behind trees.
But that is another topic.
I am not denying the fact that CLOS is the biggest threat to helis.
Overall all of the “new” F&F SAMs should be as much, if not more, deadly to helis, but some game decisions make helis much more resistant than they should.
So it’s basically data linking 3 missiles using it’s tracking radar, same as an ARH missile on a plane with TWS before it goes active, only the Pantsir obviously has to guide them the whole way in. While the 4th simply stays on standard SACLOS with the electro-optical system. Is that about right?
Well, kind of.
The radar can send commands to 4 missiles, and the system can calculate solutions for 4 missiles.
However only up to 3 missile can be tracked by the main radar. The last, 4th missile must be tracked by the optics, so its locked to centering on the crosshair.
The missiles are CLOS all the way, there is no such thing as DL with terminal homing like in ARH. It is just the logic of CLOS that changes. In both cases they can be ACLOS, as target tracking by sight is automatic, but the sight tracked one can also operate in SACLOS, when the gunner aims manually.
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Gottcha, thanks for clarifying that for me I was over thinking quite a bit!
The Pantsir is already causing imbalance at top tier because it sits at the wrong BR and effectively gives every Russian lineup the strongest free SPAA in the game. It is currently the best system for intercepting missiles and glide bombs, clearly outperforming other nations’ air defenses.
Instead of adding a second Pantsir for Russia, it should be moved to 12.3 or 12.7, and other nations should receive their own Pantsir variants. All real-life operators — including Saudi Arabia, UAE, Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Algeria, and Syria — could reinforce other tech trees (e.g., Saudi Arabia for Great Britain, Iraq for the USA, Algeria for France), which would improve balance far more than doubling down on Russia.
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Pantsir sits 0.3 above some of the CAS it’s balanced against and on-BR with other CAS it’s balanced against.
Pantsir’s BR is not causing imbalance in the slightest.
If Pantsir moved up, the 11.7 & 12.0 CAS balanced to it would have to move up as well.
Pantsir is unbalanced because it is by far the most effective SPAA at intercepting missiles and glide bombs, and it’s only available to one nation. Systems like ADATS, ITO, or TOR simply cannot match its interception reliability, engagement envelope, and overall performance against modern CAS threats.
As long as only one nation has access to the strongest anti-CAS platform in the game, that creates asymmetry regardless of minor BR alignment. If Pantsir were available to multiple nations, it could reasonably stay where it is. If not, then it should move up — so it isn’t effectively a free, dominant anti-air pick in every Russian top-tier lineup.
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No, for Pantsir to be unbalanced it would have to be impossible [not hard/difficult, but impossible] for CAS to do things at its BR.
ADATS and TOR are lower BR than Pantsir.
If you want to lobby for ITO-90M to be lowered, go for it, but Pantsir itself is fine where it is.
You’re looking at it purely from a “is CAS impossible?” angle, but that’s not the actual issue.
The problem with Pantsir at 12.0 is that it becomes the standard, go-to SPAA in every Russian lineup. Every Russian player has access to the most capable anti-missile system in the game by default. Compare that to for example Germany getting FlaRakRad or Japan’s Tan sam or GB&US ADATS, it’s simply not the same level of performance.
This isn’t about tiny BR differences. It’s about access. At 12.0, Russia doesn’t default to TOR it defaults to Pantsir. That means the strongest anti-CAS platform is consistently present on one side.
If Pantsir were moved to at least 12.3, Russian players would more often rely on TOR as their standard SPAA instead of automatically having Pantsir available. That alone would reduce the current capability stacking.
The better long-term fix would be to introduce Pantsir variants to other nations. Right now, platforms like the Su-39, Su-25T, and Su-24 with KH-29/KH-38/Vikhr/LMUR are on the same side as Pantsir. So the faction with the strongest CAS also has the strongest anti-CAS shield. Other nations don’t have the option to spawn something comparable after already fielding their own SAMs.
This isn’t about making CAS unusable. It’s about avoiding one-sided access to the most effective defensive system at top tier.
@zweigelt83
Pantsir didn’t create any standard.
M16 at BR 2.7 did, and Pantsir just matches that standard at 12.0.
Just because 11.7 CAS was OP from 2020 - 2023 doesn’t mean that should’ve ever been a standard.
Pantsir can only be moved to 12.3 if all CAS 11.7 - 12.3 is also moved up by 0.3 BR.
As well as all SPAA for that matter.
There is nothing one sided in this regard.
In closer ranges China has CSSA5 [up to 18km], Japan has Tan-SAM Kai [I don’t know if 12.0 is correct for Tan-SAM Kai], and for closer ranges there are 2 ITO-90Ms, and EldE 98; these aren’t equal to Pantsir’s long range capability, though CSSA5 comes closest.
Edit added a thought at the time of the post’s creation.
what is this even means?
Tan SAM Kai is the same as Pantsir? i know you have bad opinion but Tan SAM? the awful radar with the only saving grace is the missile? which is not even comparable to Pantsir? what a bollocks
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