The Pantsir is already causing imbalance at top tier because it sits at the wrong BR and effectively gives every Russian lineup the strongest free SPAA in the game. It is currently the best system for intercepting missiles and glide bombs, clearly outperforming other nations’ air defenses.
Instead of adding a second Pantsir for Russia, it should be moved to 12.3 or 12.7, and other nations should receive their own Pantsir variants. All real-life operators — including Saudi Arabia, UAE, Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Algeria, and Syria — could reinforce other tech trees (e.g., Saudi Arabia for Great Britain, Iraq for the USA, Algeria for France), which would improve balance far more than doubling down on Russia.
Pantsir is unbalanced because it is by far the most effective SPAA at intercepting missiles and glide bombs, and it’s only available to one nation. Systems like ADATS, ITO, or TOR simply cannot match its interception reliability, engagement envelope, and overall performance against modern CAS threats.
As long as only one nation has access to the strongest anti-CAS platform in the game, that creates asymmetry regardless of minor BR alignment. If Pantsir were available to multiple nations, it could reasonably stay where it is. If not, then it should move up — so it isn’t effectively a free, dominant anti-air pick in every Russian top-tier lineup.
You’re looking at it purely from a “is CAS impossible?” angle, but that’s not the actual issue.
The problem with Pantsir at 12.0 is that it becomes the standard, go-to SPAA in every Russian lineup. Every Russian player has access to the most capable anti-missile system in the game by default. Compare that to for example Germany getting FlaRakRad or Japan’s Tan sam or GB&US ADATS, it’s simply not the same level of performance.
This isn’t about tiny BR differences. It’s about access. At 12.0, Russia doesn’t default to TOR it defaults to Pantsir. That means the strongest anti-CAS platform is consistently present on one side.
If Pantsir were moved to at least 12.3, Russian players would more often rely on TOR as their standard SPAA instead of automatically having Pantsir available. That alone would reduce the current capability stacking.
The better long-term fix would be to introduce Pantsir variants to other nations. Right now, platforms like the Su-39, Su-25T, and Su-24 with KH-29/KH-38/Vikhr/LMUR are on the same side as Pantsir. So the faction with the strongest CAS also has the strongest anti-CAS shield. Other nations don’t have the option to spawn something comparable after already fielding their own SAMs.
This isn’t about making CAS unusable. It’s about avoiding one-sided access to the most effective defensive system at top tier.
@zweigelt83
Pantsir didn’t create any standard.
M16 at BR 2.7 did, and Pantsir just matches that standard at 12.0.
Just because 11.7 CAS was OP from 2020 - 2023 doesn’t mean that should’ve ever been a standard.
Pantsir can only be moved to 12.3 if all CAS 11.7 - 12.3 is also moved up by 0.3 BR.
As well as all SPAA for that matter.
There is nothing one sided in this regard.
In closer ranges China has CSSA5 [up to 18km], Japan has Tan-SAM Kai [I don’t know if 12.0 is correct for Tan-SAM Kai], and for closer ranges there are 2 ITO-90Ms, and EldE 98; these aren’t equal to Pantsir’s long range capability, though CSSA5 comes closest.
Edit added a thought at the time of the post’s creation.
what is this even means?
Tan SAM Kai is the same as Pantsir? i know you have bad opinion but Tan SAM? the awful radar with the only saving grace is the missile? which is not even comparable to Pantsir? what a bollocks
@Xermaz
14km F&F radar missiles at a BR where engagement range is <16km is potentially equal, yes; though that isn’t my own take.
You’re not facing other SPAA, you’re facing aircraft. So comparing the SPAA directly to each other would be inappropriate.
It’s why you compare them to the CAS they have to deal with.
This post of mine also isn’t speaking about Pantsir.
Though Pantsir is better than Tan-SAM Kai against helicopters.
oh wait, you actually serious?
ok then tell me, how do i beat Mi-28NM. or actually to be more “fair” how do i beat Ka-52 with Tan SAM Kai, since we know that 28NM is overkill against it.
Instead of agreeing with me that helicopter LDIRCM is OP, you’re creating a post to defend them instead…
DIRCM needs to be corrected, and cherry picking an entire broken vehicle class currently is not the gotcha you think it is.
i guess helicopter is not aircraft anymore huh? and still, nice way to move goalpost there
no i don’t, i never put any goalpost. i put your goalpost into the test, you directly said that Tan SAM Kai is equal to Pantsir.
so i put it to the test against the nemesis of FNF, helicopter. Pantsir, like any other SACLOS SPAA can face against helicopter even 13.0 fixed wing with Kh-38s. but nah, it’s definitely equal to Pantsir
@Xermaz
You never mentioned fixed wing CAS in any of your posts, so you never once “tested a goalpost”.
You made up a strawman argument to argue against, project that invented argument onto me, then expect me to argue your invented position for you.
And yes, aircraft in that context was 11.7 - 12.0 fixed wing CAS. Always has been.
And yes, against F-111F and Tornado IDS, the Pantsir and Tan-SAM Kai are equally effective.
Edit:
Oh yeah, you didn’t even mention 12.0 helicopters. You mentioned 13.0 helicopters which is even more of a movement of goalposts than just moving from fixed wing.
yes? because it’s not my argument, it’s yours. Tan SAM Kai is struggle against any aircraft because the radar sucks, more so to Helicopter.
oh great you putting it against the weaker aircraft. now tell me how how about Tan SAM Kai vs Pantsir against F-4F KWS? because Pantsir can easily kill all AGM and the CAS.
oh wow, i didn’t know that Ka-52 is 13.0 and i never move the goalpost, you said AIRCRAFT, i said Helicopter, which is still an aircraft
Both are 12.0 SPAA whose purpose is to deal with 12.0 CAS, usually fixed wing.
F-111F/C can defeat Pantsir with decently quick training, but the tactics used to defeat Pantsir gets you fragged by TanSAM Kai and EldE. And defeating Tan SAM Kai & EldE makes you more vulnerable to Pantsir & ITO-90M.
@Xermaz
The Pantsir and Tan SAM Kai are 12.0, so the aircraft they are to be compared to are 12.0 in BR, in this conversation fixed-wing specifically.
Which includes 11.7 CAS because 12.0 lineups exist.
Just going to put this out there and I don’t want to start anything by it but tbh they both definitely can take out ldircm just in two different ways, pantsir can deal with it because of saclos and if the heli pilot isn’t smart and is in the open the tan Sam Kai can deal with it by using the IR missile with the “tv” mode. I was messing around with friends in customs (I know it’s customs and not real matches) and pretty much any IR Sam that has the different seeker modes can kill them even the type 93, I was able to rat about and make him fly high and it works the imaging mode doesn’t care about ldircm
