Whatever has been changed its made WT rigged
Played the f16 12.3 ARB last night
I was the only downtier in the lobby… thousands of games and never had this happen.
How can 1 plane be the only 12.3 when the rest are BR 12.7- 13.3?
I just unlocked F-16A, and I saw the same thing. On top of being a toptier jet bent solely on dogfighting, yet doesn’t even get access to a G-suit, every single game I played was against 13.0s and 13.3s. Every single game hade Kfir C.10s, F-15As, F-18Cs, and Mirage F1Cs.
I watched some videos on F-16A to see what I was doing wrong, and why I kept dying without getting kills, and in every clip I saw the YouTubers doing successful, they were facing 11.3 planes like the F-4E.
Same thing happens in air RB too by the way, even in matches with mixed nations, meaning that Gaijin can put all 4 top tier planes on the same team without any valid excuse.
2 Likes
Yep…it would be something that makes the match unfair…
I play AB and so far i didn’t notice it there…i am GUESSING it is some “nation matchmaking”…although i am not sure if this is still a thing at the moment…
I personally would prefer nation matchmaking (even in AB)…but this big difference should not happen…4vs2 or something i would be ok with…4vs0 is a bit of a stretch…
1 Like
One team needs to be the power team, and the people most likely to stop playing because of a bad game/people Gaijin feel have had a hard enough time and may contemplate abandoning WT will be placed on it to make them think it might still be worth it. In other words; the coddled team.
The other team is the whipping boy team, where people least likely to disengage because of a bad game are placed. In other words; the team mostly populated by people who haven’t exhibited a history of bailing on the game just because a bunch of matches sucked.
Each team is configured by matchmaker to strongly encourage a better EXPERIENCE for the coddled team.
Everyone, at all times, no matter what your individual skill level is, is playing a crafted and curated experience that was already determined before you even spawned in to the match.
Whether to try to keep up an imagine of “randomness” or whether it’s another layer of typical F2P progression control, people who don’t need coddling will be placed on the coddled team anyway, and vice versa; people who aren’t going to bail on the game will still find themselves on the whipping boy team often in streaks.
…like me… Because Gaijin knows I play obsessively lately, knows I have done all the recent grind events and am doing so now, Gaijin knows I’m not bailing any time soon, so it’s safe to put me on team whipping boy a lot.
This is also why Gaijin refuses any changes to how matchmaking works and always drags out that “queue times will be longer” argument. Pfffft. No. That’s not what the issue is. The real reason is because they have matchmaker configured to do a very specifically narrow thing (this EBMM I described) and that is its primary function. They can’t alter it in any way, because EBMM is core to their business model, which is infinitely more important to them than what a vocal minority on the forums think.
What is being called a “flaw” is in fact working as designed.
The science of data analytics is quite advanced and outliers are not in any quantity to make such a system not worth it to an F2P like War Thunder. And they don’t need to employ math nerds and number dorks; it’s entirely automated (hence why outliers will exist because no abstracted automated system will ever be perfect).
As well, data analytics are advanced enough to be able to account for and mostly negate people trying to “game the system” by purposely tanking their own performance or thinking they are smart by intentionally acting braindead for a period of time hoping to get the coddled team. Even if that actually worked perfectly, so few people are ever doing that compared to people who aren’t that it’s not a factor in the grand scheme of things. So there’s no risk to this system.
1 Like
Err…i read your post twice…it seems a bit far-fetched to me…
I am NOT naive (or at least i dont think i am)…but i don’t see the “signs” of what you mention…
To be clear…my “gut feeling” is more “RNG happens” and “people like to complain”…BUT i also don’t think game companies are saints…
I am skeptic of “conspiration theories” in general…and i been on enough arguments in the forum to see “lots” of players will believe that the game is trying to hurt them personally…and in many cases it is plainly bogus.
HOWEVER…in this AI and algorithms age i am willing to entertain the idea…
SO…in practical terms…how do you explain the overall 50% win rates and the fact that players can get games on the good team or on the bad team…or even teams…all in the same hour…?
And from your own description i would assume a bad win ratio…however you have 50% in your favorite mode…and even 55% in AB.
I admit i had several losses in a row on occasion…but when i look at the stats i end up realizing that i notice the losses way more than the wins…and my brain gets annoyed at losing streaks and does not register winning streaks…leading to a 49% win ratio…(ATM)
1 Like
From my pov you are on the right track “Game companies are no saints” but you refuse to acknowledge that the MM (with all aspects) has way more influence on the outcome than you.
An example:
The only way to escape certain (unconfirmed, but assumed) functionalities of the MM which might cause unwanted effects like low IQ team mates and facing super strong enemies in constant uptier loops is to play on less populated servers with just a few people for the “right” nation with the “right” aircraft.
It looks like that the MM prioritizes creating matches (6 vs 6 is minimum) over other stuff…
2 Likes
An established, known and already known to be implemented by others matchmaking model doesn’t sound far fetched to me at all. It sounds quite expected and typical.
1 Like
It’s pretty natural for a successful MMO to seek to try and keep its players in the “flow zone”. Making sure you don’t have it too easy if you’re good, or too hard if you’re bad, is basic game design, and in WT you can achieve both at once by putting a very good player in a really bad team, or vice versa.
Given the longevity and success of WT, I would find it harder to explain if their matchmaker really wasn’t engagement-oriented, rather than if it was.
4 Likes
DING fries are done.
2 Likes
My problem with this theory is that the super strong enemies are somebody else super strong team mates…
I play the game…sometimes i am in the top of the team (we are usually doomed when this happens), other times my team moves so fast that i end up in the bottom of the ranking of the winning team. This happens in quick succession sometimes…so it is easier for me to think that the same core players are mixed differently on both matches…
AND…MOST games are neither…some kind of balance exists for several minutes…until one of the teams gets the upper hand and it goes downhill (or uphill) from there…
SO…i admit that any PVP game developer will look at matchmaking algorithms available…and will consider some that may increase profit…i know i would…
BUT…i don’t see the “dreaded” matchmaker that is out to punish me or get me to jump for the credit card…and if feels a lot like RNG because i really don’t feel it being trying to “engage” me…
AGAIN…i play AB…maybe it is different when nations are in the matchmaking…or i simply don’t care enough to be “engaged”…as a side note, i no longer even check what tasks i should be doing…i just play…
It is not out to punish you (if it exists: we can only speculate). It is out to ensure you don’t get too frustrated but also that you don’t just reach all your goals and get bored. In other words, the flow zone.
2 Likes
Ghost, you are intentionally using words no one else has “conspiracy theories,” “Dreaded” and “punished” to Poison The Well. Poisoning the well - Wikipedia
EBMM is not a “conspiracy theory” nor is it so cheekily “dreaded” matchmaker trying to “punish” you in to using your credit card.
It’s simply a method to keep as many people playing as long as can be encouraged. It’s common in the industry. Your Weasel Words Weasel word - Wikipedia are disingenuous, by design, because you are induced by Gaijin to deflect from or denigrate any topic they don’t “want” discussed.
1 Like
As said earlier by others - we talk about well established mechanisms within the gaming industry, not theories.
If you look at the OP:
He claims that the MM is not willing to offer “fair” fighting conditions in the sense that top tier vehicles are equally balanced, meaning that both teams do not have the same amount of top BR vehicles in both teams.
This is a matter of fact, even admitting that you have to consider other things like highly popular (premium) vehicles or running grinding/scoring BP events.
-
You can easily test this by flying a JP 3.7 / 4.0 plane on a less populated server. You run into constant full uptier loops in small matches on Pacific maps vs US/UK teams (=semi-historical MM).
-
And ofc they are unbalanced regarding the top BR vehicles simply because JP has just 1 BR 4.7 fighter (very rare premium Ki-61) and 1 BR 4.7 bomber (Ki-67) - whilst US/UK have highly popular and very strong 4.7 aircraft (Wyvern, Spit VC, F8F-1, P-47 D-28, P-38 L) at this BR.
-
So it is not even rare to play as JP team without a 4.7 aircraft - but facing 4 in a 6 vs 6. My last match (replay link) showed 3 US 4.7s vs 1 JP 4.7 aircraft.
They lost just due to their lack of experience - even a plain 3.7 P-51 or P-47 outperforms any JP fighter if he manages to get above 5-6 km altitude. I won hundreds of those matches in the UK P-47 whilst my 4.7 US team died like flies. The speed gap between US and JP is way too large - that’s why i lost dozens of matches flying for JP just because the straight line speed of most enemies is higher than my rip speed…
The subsequent topic “flow zone” works as soon as there are enough players in the queue.
The sole redeeming factor (at least for Air RB at this BR) is that you are safe from intended additional “challenges” via “adjustments” of BRs and average player skill of your opponents is the low amount of players in the queue.
2 Likes
This issue seriously should be reworded better so more people know of the issue at hand.
I play early jet tiers a lot and it is debilitating to have 7 Squadron 262’s or C-1as that are middling at best having to go up against 4 F-86F-25s. They barely hold against F-86As, imagine against F-25s.
Not to even mention the P-51H spam at lower tiers, 5.7 games these days are an incredible sweep if you’re not USA. Both of these can be put down to I admit horrible BR changes by gaijin, but this is also a major contributing factor when my team has zero 8.3s to contest these Sabres/Migs.
aren’t you that coward troll who hide your profile
1 Like
yep, 0-4 toptier either side, has always been the rule.
1 Like
this is what people has been saying with the 0.7 matchmaking BR cap.
I also think Gaijin shouldn’t allow people to “uptier” themselves with aircraft.
If I have no 12.0 ground vehicle but I have a jet, I shouldn’t be allowed to que in 13.0 Ground.
See lots of people bringing a 9.0 premium and a 14.3 jet into 13.0 GRB
OK…my bad probably…i was assuming you were considering this a bad thing (if being used)…at least it was how your post sounded to me…
I personally don’t really care it if exists or not…as long as my games keep coming up “normally”…if they manage to make them more “engaging” to me it sounds as a good thing…or so i hope.
I was really asking how do the very different matches we get may equate with the theory…i am always curious on how these things work…