The M60A3 SLEP (missnamed AMBT as the AMBT never existed) that is already at 10.0 in the US tree has gen 2 thermals as well and a 1200 hp engine.
Both the A3 SLEP and 120s tried to capture the Turkish market in their own time frame, with the SLEP being leased to a domestic sales team in an attempt to get it sold to Turkey (Standartbio, which is now a defunct shell company as it’s only purpose was to weasel into Turkish arms deals).
As it stands right now there is no reason as to why the 120S does not get it’s production metrics when the SLEP was only produced IRL with a 750 HP engine and a gen 1 TWS package and no 25mm cannon.
I see no reason as to why the 120S should not be held to the same standard as the M60A3 SLEP which already exists with KE-W at the same exact BR.
If the 120S is given a gen 1 sight by gaijin, this means the K1, K1A1 and K1A2 will also be forced to have a gen 1 sight when they should be gen 2 unless they are of the 400 ish first production K1s.
As shown here in the brochure, Raytheon states that the sight is currently being developed as a Generation 2 sight.
The first production run of the GPTTS ended in 1991 with the GPTTS being upgraded and subsequently replaced in Korean service by 1998, and the 120S only came to be in 2001, so there is no reason the only existing prototype of the 120S should be fielding a dated export sight first produced in 1986, and removed from production in 1991.
I’m pretty sure that M60 120S uses a standard M1A1 turret, which uses its standard optics.
So I’m hesitant to believe that they upgraded the optics for the prototype.
You still haven’t answered to my claim lmao, meanwhile Lolman used logic (something i don’t think you’re fully aware of) to further prove that you’re defending a straight up lie
The M1A1 or any M1 prior to the M1A2SEP lacked an eye safe LRF.
All marketing of the 120S / M60-2000 states that the tank as an eye safe LRF, something a pre-SEP Abrams cannot have as the first M1 LRF was a Nd:YAG laser, same as the first generaiton of the Leopard 2. The K1 series and by further measure any tank with the GPTTS uses a C02 laser, which is eye safe compared to a Nd:YAG laser. The SEP transitioned to a C02 laser for it’s LRF.
So by this measure the 120S / M60-2000 either has the upgraded sight of the SEP (it does not) or it must use the GPTTS made by the same company that is trying to sell the 120S / M60-2000, a sight system that was only gen 1 until 1991, 10 years before the 120S / M60-2000 was created.
Of course this entire issue is moot as well given we have the outright brochure of the vehicle posted here, which states the 120S uses a 240x4 gen 2 thermal system, which happens to line exactly up with the focal length of the GPTTS system after it’s upgrade.
well as i’ve been telling people gaijin has done everything in their power to nerf the abrams, you hit a abrams anywhere and it creates a shotgun like spall effect that one hits the entire tank.
I should also add to this incredible response of yours that it literally can’t be that the engine on exhibition was the 750hp version
First of all,we have the shape of the engine compartment: it was clearly redesigned entirely,leaving only the air filters intact.
If you take any industrial class,you’ll soon learn that industries spend money on anything only if they are forced to make a change,and aesthetics rarely is a reason. As an industry,the less you pay foe something,the more profit you can make off of it. Therefore,if the compartment has changed,it clearly means that it was done so to accomodate a bigger engine (like the 1200hp one) and a bigger transmission (like the Abrams one)
Second reason is that GDLS knew of the Sabra III program: you don’t go into an exhibition with the knowledge of having a competitor that can outrun you
The Sabra III had a 1000hp engine,more powerful transmission,ERA,120mm cannon and CITV, among other things
It would’ve been suicidal for GDLS to bring a tank that had the same exact firepower of its competitor but with a worse mobility.
In fact,the decision of Turkey to choose the Sabra III upgrade came only years after the IDEF 2001,simply because the Sabra was more affordable and quick to produce,not because it was better than the M60-120S
Your affirmation and the lack of proof they cause are almost making one
In the end as well, if we wish to put aside the historical context of the vehicle.
Giving this tank it’s 1200 hp engine and gen 2 thermals will not make it better than the M60A3 SLEP or the TURMS that already exist at 10.0 as well, it will however make it different from both vehicles.
The Turms and M60A3 SLEP both have a gen 2 CITV and gen 2 GPS. The TURMS has the benefit of actually having composite and ERA arrays across the entire vehicle, however, the 120S only has such protection on the turret unless we wish to give the 120S it’s purposed hull re-design which frankly should put it up to 10.3 or 10.7 as that armor package is impressive to say the least, meanwhile the AMBT is still a M60 all over, it’s armor is pretty much worthless at it’s BR.
So the 120S trades a CITV which it’s competitors has, for a faster reload and a tougher turret, at the cost of being stupidly tall, with a massive turret base weakpoint and a hull that cannot stop anything.
I see this setup as a pretty good asymmetric balance, the TURMs is a jack of all trades master of none, the AMBT is a glass cannon sniper, and the 120S is a AMBT that trades it’s standoff capabilities for the ability to brawl better.
Ankara, Turkey On 27 September, General Dynamics will introduce its 120S Main Battle Tank during the opening ceremonies at IDEF 2001 in Ankara, Turkey.
The General Dynamics 120S is an upgrade of the M60 tank. The 120S is a unique product that integrates the M1A1 120 mm turret, equipped with a 240X4 Forward Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR), onto a fully modernized M60 chassis.
The survivability of the 120S is unmatched. The turret is protected with the latest armor which was successfully demonstrated to the Turkish Main Battle Tank Committee. Additionally, the 120 mm ammunition is fully compartmentalized, providing optimum system survivability as demonstrated in the 1991 Gulf War.
The 120S chassis includes an M1A1 suspension system giving the tank greatly improved cross-country mobility and a stable base for fire on- the-move accuracy similar to the Abrams tank.
The new 120S is fully functional, ready to accept a powerpack of the customerÆs choice. To achieve mobility similar to an M1A2 Abrams tank, a 1200 horsepower AVDS-1790 engine is recommended however, other propulsion options are also possible.
“The 120S is an exciting product that offers a proven and affordable M60 upgrade solution to potential customers. The 120S makes existing M60 fleets relevant by increasing their capability close to that of the M1A1 Abrams tank performance, at half the price.” said Henry Umanos,. director of international business development and 120S program director for General Dynamics Land Systems. “Also of significant importance is the fact that the 120S upgrade components are in production with logistical and operational support readily available through the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps.”
"The 120S offers a pragmatic approach to potential customers, "said Peter M. McVey, vice president of international business development at Land Systems . "ItÆs commonality with the Abrams tank family of vehicles, easily offers future growth opportunities to evolve into a new main battle tank program "
General Dynamics Land Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics (NYSE:GD). General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 49,000 people worldwide and anticipates 2001 sales of approximately $12.0 billion. The company has leading market positions in business aviation, information systems, shipbuilding and marine systems, and land and amphibious combat systems.
More information about General Dynamics Land Systems can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.gdls.com/.
The ammo should be fully compartmentalized - its not.
The GPS is a 240X4 FLIR aka the GPTTS upgraded to gen 2 as the gen 1 is not 240x4.
The engine is the recommended and slated to be the AVDS-1790 but can be other engines, yet does not specify a 750 hp engine as an option, turkey required a minimum of a 1000 hp engine for the bids so a 750 hp option is out of the question from that side.
The turret is protected with quote “the latest armor” possibly a package like the aussie AIM.
No, it’s the 120S. It’s always been marketed as such. The M60 2000 was a completely different upgrade program that included appliqué armor on the base M60A1 turret and the FCS from the M1A1.
The M60-2000 only used a M1A1 turret. Not a M1A2 turret so it would not have the same armor as a M1A2 Sep. It was also only used as a test bed. Since it wasn’t ever gonna sell when they could just buy the M1A1 and because the M60 wasn’t in production therefore parts were becoming scarce.
