The "Leopard Problem" of Top Tier Ground

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
41

I am aware of that, but you do have things like the fact that L27A1 was supposedly made to hard counter things like T-72s and T-80s but can quite often just non-pen them. But I think that mostly comes from the lack of ERA Perforation being modeled.

At a minimum we have reports like this:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bMbEJftRqiSp

A tiny buff, I know. But 8 months and still nothing. Though I do think all the available sources do suggest that it is certainly underperforming in the Gaijin Calculator

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42

Get in line as the queue to receive anti-ERA is pretty long, roughly 4 years and 1 month long.

43

Yep, though as always, loadouts are balancing decisions. There would be nothing stopping Gaijin for at the very least, intiially, cherry picking who gets it. Though we can almost guarantee it would be US, USSR and Germany first, but oh well.

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44

But it does mean that the accuracy needed to take out a T-90M is much higher than anything outside of the 2A7s, therefore in a T-90M you have more time to get your cursor onto an enemy (especially if they miss your weakspot).

45

Against an Ariete? sure. Against a Leo 2 or T-80? hell nah.

Mobility is mediocre at best
Cannon is below averge
Armor is near non-existant
Survivability is non-existant
Gen 1 thermals
Massive target
Still has a broken engine sound
No HE shells
Gyat (can’t depress gun when pointing rear)

A 5s reload doesn’t make up for all that, especially when tanks with better armor and cannons have same and even faster reloads.

Abrams isn’t horrible but it’s most certainly not competitive.

46

Yes, and the disadvantage in mobility means you will get into position later. That gives the enemy time to prepare an ambush and pre-aim for your weak areas. Or if you have to deal with two enemies, you can’t disengage after taking one down as easily as other vehicles.

M1A2 mobility is above average, with only Leclerc, Type 90 and Type 10 beating it (as they should).

5s reload on M829A2 with fast turret rotation and gun elevation is average to above average.

Adamantium turret to 75% of ammo you will face isn’t non-existant armor. Just because the Leo2A5+ and Relikt on T-80BVM/90M make their protection stronger doesn’t mean the Abrams goes down to Ariete or Leclerc level protection, it’s still above average for the tier.

Gen 1 thermals are literally a skill issue, I run around in my Expeditionary tank at 12.7 BR and have no issues. Just learn to turn them on and off when needed. That’s what IRL leopard 2 gunners do. Even then, you have the SEPs to help with that.

The M1A2 is also slightly taller than the T-80BVM and Type 99, average for NATO tank designs. Leclerc is taller and has worse protection. Only the SEP 2 messes that up with the clutter on top of the tank.

HE ammo is (artificially) made near exclusive to 125mm guns, and the USA basically doesn’t have a proper HE round in service yet for the M1A2, not really a problem exclusive to the Abrams.

Elevated engine decks and poor rearward gun depression aren’t exclusive to the Abrams either.

Pray tell what other tank combines a turret that can resist most top BR ammo, barring DM53, a 5 second reload and overall good to average characteristics?

Because it’s definitely not the Leclerc, Type 99, T-80BVM, Merkava, CR2, Type 10 or Ariete.

Abrams is completely competitive against the majority of top tier, only completely outclassed by the Leo2A7V and Strv 122.

2 Likes
47

Nah

T-90M > T-80BVM > T-80U-E1

That spall liner and autoloader has saved my ass sooooo many times.

Su-34 is best CAS in the game, and Ka-52 is one of only 2 helicopters that don’t become completely useless whenever they get hit by a pebble.

Pantsir-S1 is also the best AA though that doesn’t mean much against a good pilot.

Sweden is literally the only other nation that can rival Russia in GRB versatility, Russia only suffers in ARB.

1 Like
48

BVM is better for sure. 11 km/h reverse, faster reload, better mobility

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49

Pre-aiming can’t happen unless you are just waltzing in without paying attention to your surroundings (like if you can here any engines around you). And in terms of taking out multiple enemies, a weakly-armored tank wouldn’t be able to survive a shot from even one of those tanks, so the only “mobility” you’re relying on is an incredibly situation-dependent (since getting to cover is incredibly situation-dependent).

50

Faster reload doesn’t really matter when the majority of tanks can out reload both of them

51

its t90m vs bvm, but yeah

52

France is a nation that DOESN’T use the Leopard, and has a very capable, very strong, very very good MBT that’s missing half its features they could just fix instead.

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53

Yep; but gaijin won’t :P

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55

Gotta love that meme still going around

56

there are both aussie and canuk vehicles in the british tree. It makes more logical sense to have the nations of the british empire (and commonwealth of nations if you want to be pedantic) in one tree

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57

And give us regenerative steering.

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58

Yeah, that would be nice

59

There are both aussie and canadian vehicles in the US tree.

Sounds like it should go to the US.
Your argument is incredible weak.
Germany already has 2 canadian vehicles as well

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60

It obviously doesn’t work, it looks like a shoot once die tank

61

I have to disagree slightly. They are not and will never be a true equal to the 2A7’s which I think everyone can agree on, but I think they are still competitive in cases. Especially the black night and 2E. However, if we were to have all the bugs fixed, the CR2 would honestly be a much, much better vehicle. Personal opinion, Challenger 2 is better than Abrams.

Not necessarily. I used to think the same, but recently I started thinking, why? Australia and Canada use a lot of exported vehicles. Now I think the fully unique things should go to Britain as that makes the most sense BUT things like Canadian Leopard, Australian Abrams, Etc, should all go to the home nation of the vehicle except for in special cases.

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