I am still trying to find the source for that, but I remember reading somewhere tat the compact design of the engine allowed GIAT engineers to remove 1 road wheel over the Leopard, which allowed a reduction in size [of at least 1m] compared to the Leopard 2 and allowed for more mass to be put in the frontal armor.
I believe GIAT engineers worked with similar road wheel designs as the Leopard, hence why having less roadwheels equates to lower length. For the type 10 I don’t know at all, expect that maybe road wheels are further spaced appart due to the tank needing to have better performances while climbing, or to allow for more room for the movable hydropneumatic suspension
The Leclerc is modelled correctly in game.
In this image you can see that the black line is perfectly aligned with the front of the hull:
In this image you can see that the Leclerc is less than 7 m long (the black line is at the front of the tank and each white line is 1 m:
In this image you can see that the length of the tank is between 6.8 and 6.9 m (the grey line is 7 m):
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In the bug report, you can see we found the Leclerc to be almost a meter longer than the T-80U in-game when in reality it is shorter. We also compared it to the Leopard 2 and found the Leclerc was almost the same length. Either the Leclerc is wrongly modelled or all other MBTs are wrongly modelled.
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Thanks for checking for us. However, our argument isn’t just the precise length of the tank, but rather how it compared specifically to the T80U and (earlier) Leopard 2 hulls. IRL, the Leclerc is barely shorter than the T80 and at least 1m shorter than the Leo 2. However, from our observations in game (and if you can actually check like you did for the Leclerc we would really appreciate), the Leclerc is both longer than the T80U and barely shorter than the Leo 2. By exactly how much, we don’t know as we did not use the software you used. This would mean that if the Leclerc was correctly modelled, at least the T80 and the Leo2 hull would be wrongly modelled, so our report still stands in many ways.
Edit : Here is a comparaison of the T80UK to the Leclerc in game : https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1189009603543957535/1189300708223226028/War_Thunder_-_In_battle_27_12_2023_3_26_30_AM.png?ex=659da998&is=658b3498&hm=b1c74dc790f5839cbe916978a080114282958cec0544ac8e9e8948eae5929c15&
The T80 is significantly shorter
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So are the Russian t80s smaller than they should be?
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This would indicate that T-80 is unrealistically shorter.
Of course T-80, T-90, and T-72 should have an almost identical hull height compared to Abrams as well.
Largely cause Abrams development was to make the hull as low as possible.
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And it would the same for the Leopard 2 in that case as well
How strange.
You’ve apparently determined that the figure given for the Leclerc is without the exhaust etc. The problem is that you do not know what the manufacturer is referring to when they say the length of the T-80U hull is 7.012m If you measure from the front of the mud guards to the rear of the fuel tank supports then the in game model is indeed just over 7m:
Spoiler
If you want Gaijin to action the report I imagine you will need to prove exactly what dimension the manufacturer is giving for the hull. Just assuming that it is without the mud guards, and without the fuel drum supports probably won’t cut it.
Math ain’t mathing https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1189009603543957535/1189300708223226028/War_Thunder_-_In_battle_27_12_2023_3_26_30_AM.png?ex=659da998&is=658b3498&hm=b1c74dc790f5839cbe916978a080114282958cec0544ac8e9e8948eae5929c15&
My brain can’t process how 6.9 meters is supposed to be longer than 7
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Excatly. It appears there are some scaling issues happening here. He says that the T80U (which has the same hull length as the T80UK) with mud Gard and fuel tank holding mechanisms is longer than the Leclerc in his viewing software, which obviously not the case in game :
So, considering @Flame2512 you are using this software to determine length, but actually have significant discrepancies compared to in game comparaisons, I am sorry to tell you that I can’t accept your argument anymore
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Have you even read the bug report ? How do you explain the Leclerc is so much longer than the T-80UK ? Both are supposed to be the same size.
Another possibility is that the asset viewer you’re using is not an accurate depiction of what we have in-game. Considering Leclerc is still about a meter too long in comparison to a T-80UK, that begs the question of if some assets are upscaled / downscaled once they’re loaded in-game.
Either the Leclerc is wrongly modelled or all the other MBTs are wrongly modelled. One statement is more far fetched than the other … and it’s not the first statement.
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@fergui3101 @totolescargo @vizender @Bossman919 Ok let’s discard the War Thunder CDK (which by the way is the same software the devs use for War Thunder development, so should be accurate) and use only in game screenshots. Due to the T-80U being a lower tank than the Leclerc, and the camera being at a slight angle the top down camera view gives a misleading comparison.
Here I have parked a T-80U next to a Leclerc in game. The T-80U indeed looks shorter than the Leclerc when viewed from above:
Spoiler
However when you look from the side you can see that the T-80’s Mud flaps are further forward than the Leclerc’s hull front, and the T-80’s fuel drum supports are further backwards than the back of the Leclerc’s chassis:
Spoiler
Here is a zoomed in version with the Leclerc’s hull marked by blue lines:
Spoiler
But I can already hear the cries of “well the T-80 is closer to the camera so it looks bigger than it actually is”, so for some final experiment let’s turn on no-clip and drive the T-80U inside the Leclerc like this:
Spoiler
We can see that the T-80’s mud flaps protrude through the front of the Leclerc model:
Spoiler
And that the T-80’s fuel drum supports protrude through the rear grill of the Leclerc:
Spoiler
So if the measurements GIAT gives for the Leclerc are just the chassis without the mud flaps and exhaust stuff bolted on the back (as you claim) while the numbers Omsktransmash give are the overall length of the hull (from the back of the fuel tank support to the front of the mud flaps) then the two tanks are correctly scaled in game.
As I said in my original comment you need to prove that the two manufacture’s are measuring the same thing, you can’t just assume. If you can show they are both measuring to the same standard (e.g. overall length with all the extras included) then you can make a report, but at present it’s entirely plausible that the two manufacturer’s are just measuring different things.
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Please No, I enjoy fighting alongside my fellow Vieille Gardes. Please no one time quiters
By your logic the KVT is too big in War Thunder and needs to be scaled down so the whole thing can fit inside the manufacturer specified 7.9m chassis length.
Might as well give it it’s 120mm whilst they’re at it XD
My point is that you cannot just assume what numbers mean. You are saying that the Leclerc numbers are for the bare chassis and I’ll take your word for it as I can’t see at least one of your sources. But it’s impossible to know what Omsktransmash are measuring based on a single number on their website. You really need labelled diagrams, like this (from an Alvis Brochure) in order to draw proper conclusions:
But let’s say the Leclerc really is 1 m too long in game, that leaves two possibilities:
- The whole tank model is scaled up by x%, in which case you should be able to tell pretty easily (e.g. the barrel is much wider than other 120 mm tanks in game, the roof MG is bigger than the same roof MG on other tanks, the tank is taller than it should be, etc.)
- Gaijin somehow got only the length wrong, in which case the tank would look laughably out of proportion (and I would have to question how no body has noticed in the last 4 years)
he proved the leclerc is more or less correct in length and definitely not a whole ass meter longer than it should be, like the bug report title suggests. Also the T-80U’s brackets are literally welded into place so it makes total sense why they would be included in the measurements, they can’t be easily dismounted for transport
If you sincerely he proved anything you might want to go back to elementary school because it sure as hell looks like you can’t read lmao. I’ll just post this here, and stop arguing.
