The Leclerc is in dire need of a buff

[rainy2000]

@Normandy_Corsair

In the CURRENT game? Or in this decompressed idea people have?

Assuming things get moved up to 13.0, such as the SEP V1, Type 10s, TKXs, Leopard 2A7s, and STRV-122s.

@Normandy_Corsair

It’s equal at absolute worst.

No? I’ve shown you already that you are less likely to be ammo-racked in the Leclerc, let alone get penetrated when you aren’t even looking at the enemy.

@Normandy_Corsair

You are also guaranteed to be railgunned in the leclerc as your own pictures show.

This is literally DM23:

For the breech, I agree. But that is what I had already stated:

@rainy2000

unless you were shot through the breech).

@Normandy_Corsair

If you get shot in the turret in the leclerc and don’t die, you have a very high chance of losing your entire ammo rack and thus 100% of your remaining ammo. You may not die, but you are effectively dead.

The ammo rack doesn’t get penetrated because of the blow-out panel:

The only instance where the ammo rack gets detonated is when you are shot through the breech, or lol-penned by ~610mm+ APFSDS.
So if decompression occurs, and the Leclercs get moved down to 12.3, there would be very few that can achieve that.

@Normandy_Corsair

I didn’t insult you.

So is it fine if I say that this take was idiotic?

@Normandy_Corsair

Because I chose a shell that shows the difference in armor? If I pick the shells that are actually at 12.7, they both get railgunned? You said the M1A1 had WORSE armor. Clearly, if it had WORSE armor, the above pictures would show the Leclerc bouncing the M829 in more locations than the Abrams? Hello? Logic?

You do understand that the M1A1 Abrams may have more well-rounded armour, but the Leclerc has ~580mm turret cheek armour?

[i_cant_aim3]

Anybody knows anything about the new “HE F1” round? Appreciate

[Normandy_Corsair]

@rainy2000

So is it fine if I say that this take was idiotic?

It’s a grey area if you say somebody’s TAKE is idiotic. I said the >ANGLE< was idiotic because it’s a 45 degree angle trying to show off how good armor is.

@rainy2000

You do understand that the M1A1 Abrams may have more well-rounded armour, but the Leclerc has ~580mm turret cheek armour?

Yes… on the extreme edges.Not even on the main cheeks.

[rainy2000]

@Normandy_Corsair

It’s a grey area if you say somebody’s TAKE is idiotic. I said the >ANGLE< was idiotic because it’s a 45 degree angle trying to show off how good armor is.

In this video I’ve sent, it’s not just a 45 degree angle. I’m saying that it offers more protection in most front - side aspects compared to the M1A1.

@rainy2000

The ammo rack doesn’t get penetrated because of the blow-out panel:

The M1A2 and Leopard 2A6 both have turret cheek armour that can’t be penned by any MBT in the game front-on (besides the 292), but I think we can both agree that the Leopard’s turret armour is better since it offers more protection from other aspects other than front-on.

I don’t think it’s idiotic when it’s very likely to have been shot to the turret from places where you haven’t been looking, especially when playing hull-down on open-field maps like Fields of Normandy and European Province.

@Normandy_Corsair

Yes… on the extreme edges.Not even on the main cheeks.

That’s still more than what the M1A1 has to offer, and these ‘edge’ cheeks can stop ~580mm APFSDS from other aspects other than front-on.
You are not going to be ammo-racked in those cases either, unlike with the M1A1.

[rainy2000]

@i_cant_aim3

Anybody knows anything about the new “HE F1” round? Appreciate

Basically DM11 just without the time fuze.

[i_cant_aim3]

What a strange round, “F1 HE” is very general, 16,8kg mass indicates that this is may be the 120 EXPL F1, but muzzle velocity is of OE 120 F1 (yes, wikipedia is not a reliable source but still)

[Panther2995]

@Normandy_Corsair

You are also guaranteed to be railgunned in the leclerc as your own pictures show.

This is literally DM23:

At least check the actual penetration results rather than showing a half baked analysis.

[Normandy_Corsair]

It’s an extreme example to begin with. If DM23 can penetrate that much of the tank, your own BR will not fail.

[rainy2000]

So the M1A1 must struggle even more.
After all, it doesn’t have ~580mm turret cheek armour to stop its ammo rack from detonating.

[Panther2995]

@Normandy_Corsair

It’s an extreme example to begin with. If DM23 can penetrate that much of the tank, your own BR will not fail.

DM23 cannot even pass beyond optics and have you also considered that maybe just maybe protection analysis shows a result thats not even realistic in the first place?

That cheek under gunner optic provides more protection level than analysis shows, only best shells can penetrate AZUR’s and S2’s cheek while SXXI’s cheek is even more durable.

[Normandy_Corsair]

DM23 is also a poor round for 10.7. It was an extreme example. If I put even DM33, the results change drastically. DM53 pens 98% of the tank.

[Panther2995]

@Normandy_Corsair

If I put even DM33, the results change drastically. DM53 pens 95% of the tank.

Even if you put DM33 it wouldnt change anything.

Like i said only top shells such as DM53, M829A2 and similiar shells can reliably pen that area while anything less than that struggles to penetrate reliably.

[rainy2000]

3BM60, for example, can only pen the turret via the breech front aspect – especially the SXXI version.
Even side-aspect it may struggle, but if it does penetrate, the result is one crew member and / or breech – rarely ever an ammo rack.
600mm+ is when it starts becoming squishy, but the cheeks only result in taking out the breech / one crew member instead of an ammo rack until you start penetrating ~620mm+
The 12.7 Abrams should go up and the Leo 2A7 / Strv 122s should go up to 13.0.
Maybe the Type 10 / TKX too.

The Leclercs would be fine at 12.3.

[Panther2995]

Problem is Gaijin modelled Leclerc’s armor so inaccurately and even then Leclerc somehow holds its own ground.

@rainy2000

The Abrams should go up and the Leo 2A7 / Strv 122s should go up to 13.0.
The Leclercs would be fine at 12.3.

Absolutely not unless Abrams recieves fixes to its armor protection and recieve additional hull armor protection.

2A7V and STRV122 sits at another league compare to other top tier tanks.

[rainy2000]

@Panther2995

Problem is Gaijin modelled Leclerc’s armor so inaccurately and even then Leclerc somehow holds its own ground.

If they correctly model the Leclercs it could probably stay at 12.7 but how it currently is, it isn’t particularly strong.
12.3 would make the most sense at the moment.

@Panther2995

Absolutely not unless Abrams recieves fixes to its armor protection and recieve additional hull armor protection.

Abrams is the best all-rounder at the moment – even with the nerfed armour.
Type 10 and Merkava are also good contenders but the Type 10 has mediocre turret armour and gun handling, whereas the Merkava has poor gun depression, gun handling (albeit better than the Type 10’s), and overall armour.

The Abrams’ turret armour is enough to stop any round, though it’s not nearly as good as the Chally’s or Leopard 2’s.

The hull armour wouldn’t really make a big difference other than stopping weaker rounds.

The biggest problem the Abrams has with its armour is the turret ring being too weak, which allows maximum spalling for MBT APFSDS and autocannons to lol-pen it from any aspect.
If that gets fixed then I really don’t see how it can’t be with the 2A7s and 122s.
It’s more mobile than them, bigger first stage, and a 5s reload which is very useful in CQC.

[Panther2995]

@rainy2000

If that gets fixed then I really don’t see how it can’t be with the 2A7s and 122s.

Thats why i said without getting those fixes it shouldnt sit at the same br where those tanks are.

[rainy2000]

What would you say would also be 12.7 if 13.0 existed?

[Panther2995]

For SEP variants 12.7 is perfectly fine in current states, M1A2/Click-Bait should be 12.3 tho.

[rainy2000]

I think SEPs are better than any 12.7 MBT other than the 2A7s and Strv 122s and possibly the TKX / Type 10s and Merkava Mk.4B / Ms.
The M1A2 / Clickbait are better than any 12.3 MBT too, though 2A6 / 2A5 are better hull-down and arguably on long-range maps, and the Merkava Mk.4B is a good contender to it too.

[Panther2995]

@rainy2000

The M1A2 / Clickbait are better than any 12.3 MBT too, though 2A6 / 2A5 are better hull-down and arguably on long-range maps.

Problem is M1A2/Click-Baits are worse than SEP models and they should not be at the same br in current enviroment.

Proper thing to do is increase top tier br to 13.3 and raise M1A2/Click-Baits br to 12.7.