All the 12.0 Abrams should be 12.7, so the Leclerc wouldn’t be equal to them.
The Leopard has the turret armour, survivability, and round but the Leclerc has the mobility, versatility and reload.
That’s fair imo.
Are you three suggesting the Leclecs should be 12.0?
Because their pros work more often than the Leclerc’s pros and they don’t have such glaring cons
The reload, mobility, and versatility do work quite well.
Name me a map where these features can’t be useful in most of or all of the time
I mean, that’s true, though that meaning the Leclercs should be 0.3 BR lower than the Leopard 2A5 / 2A6 is a little extreme imo.
Leclerc’s low speed mobility is mid because the gearing is terrible. Low speed mobility is important because it’s what allows you to reposition quickly and what actually allows you to get up to speed. The reload is only .3 seconds faster than pretty much any other nato tank’s expert crew. The tank isn’t versatile. It’s a “light” MBT that relies on flanking and not being seen. A versatile MBT is something like an Abrams or Leopard who have everything good or better regarding their overall characteristics.
City maps do not promote mobility usage. Corridor maps do not promote mobility usage.
That’s fair but from my experience facing them, it doesn’t seem that bad.
The only NATO / Western MBTs at 11.7 - 12.3 that have similar mobility and reload (assuming the 12.0 Abrams are moved up) are the M1A1s and Ariete, which both have worse armour, and possibly even worse survivability.
The Leopard 2A5 / 2A6 are worse than Leclerc in most cases other than hull-down because the hull armour is just as useless as the Leclerc’s
It’s why 2A7 / 122s are better despite having the same turret armour.
So if you need to play around corners (such as in most city maps), you need to work around your NATO Hump and 6s reload. The times where city maps would favour the 2A6 / 2A5 is when it can afford to post up behind debris and defend a position / chokehold.
The Abrams is the only one I agree with being more versatile than the Leclercs.
I definitely agree here.
Though I can’t tell you how many true corridor maps there are since it’s quite nuance.
It is awful. Tanks that have no business being faster than you at low speed are because the leclerc has an awful transmission. It reduces the mobility heavily at low speed.
The M1A1 has worse armor? I don’t really care to read the rest. You’re being disingenuous.
I’m not talking about the 12.0 M1A1s, but the 11.7 one.
Every single M1A1 has superior armor.
You’re joking right? 😅
M829
Why are you shooting a crappy shell that is even worse than the Type 90’s and TKX (P)'s 120mm DM33?
Shoot 3BM46, 3BM60, KE-W, L27A1, BTA4, or DTC10-125.
Those are more common at 11.7 - 12.3.
Because I chose a shell that shows the difference in armor? If I pick the shells that are actually at 12.7, they both get railgunned? You said the M1A1 had WORSE armor. Clearly, if it had WORSE armor, the above pictures would show the Leclerc bouncing the M829 in more locations than the Abrams? Hello? Logic?
Why do you think shooting a BETTER shell would somehow make the Leclerc not a full pen in every location?
You mean the image where the Leclerc has worse armor? The same at best?
Hull armour, possibly (though we can both agree that they aren’t really useable).
Turret armour on the M1A1 is objectively worse.
No, it isn’t. They have the same armor on both hull and turret at absolute best. The abrams UFP might ricochet shots, the Leclerc is not capable of ricocheting shots.
Even if I was arguing for your sake and trying to prove your point, at best the leclerc’s armor is 2% better and you have to cherrypick idiotic angles to prove it. In reality and not fantasy world they have the same armor at best and the M1A1 has better armor in general.
2% better? 😂
So the M1A2s have only 5% better armour?
Also, the Leclercs are more survivable hull-down since most rounds at 11.7 - 12.3 can lol-pen the M1A1 and ammo rack it.
Let’s look at the turret armour and survivability in more detail:
Red = Ammo rack / crew wipe / engine + turret drive most likely to occur. (one shot / two shot kill inevitable)
Orange = Gunner + Commander out and maybe one module (other than the engine / breech) most likely to occur. (You most likely can retreat back into cover, though you will have a 10s reload)
Dark Yellow = Breech + maybe one crew member (You most likely can retreat back into cover and repair, you will still have a 5s reload)
Gold = Loader / Commander / Gunner + maybe one module (You most likely can shoot back)
Light Yellow = Module damage
Against ~570mm (pretty common penetration at around ~11.7 - 12.0):
Assuming the M1A1 is taking only ~23 rounds
Assuming the Leclerc S1 is taking only ~23 rounds too
And assuming the Leclerc SXXI is taking only ~23 rounds too
M1A1’s ammunition is also more likely to explode due to the way it is orientated compared to the Leclercs, and possibly even more compact:
In this situation (where you may not be looking at the enemy), you will be ammo-racked with the M1A1, but only lose one crew member with the Leclerc (if it even pens the turret cheek).
