The Leclerc is in dire need of a buff

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

It’s a fact not an opinion,having commander thermal is always benefit.

MotorolaCRO:

Not at the expense of Gen 2 gunner thermals.

It becomes solely a benefit when coupled with the Gen 2 thermals.

@Panther2995

Maybe in your opinion but gunner+commander thermal>gunner thermal only.

In the opinion of the majority of folks who have spent the last 3 years talking about 2a6 (if not longer)

@Panther2995

Pixel hunting is not practical by any means and 95 percent of the time I doesn’t change anything.

An Pigeon:

Clearly proving you chose to ignore my statement of the lower half of the breach entirely can be penetrated with the M18 round APHE round.
You choosing to ignore something doesn’t change it.

@Panther2995

Your vertical camera angle is active, guess who’s lowering the argument.

An Pigeon:

Again I’m aware that it is.
however the angle to the tanks is the same 90 degree angle.
Would you like me to turn it off and show the exact same thing¿

@Panther2995

While ignoring other features?

Yea I agree.

I didn’t ignore them, it’s plainly stated above the 2A6 turret front is better, the rest of the turret side / rear is pretty much the same, unless you get Gaijined with a shot.

@MotorolaCRO

I was focusing on the keyword huge in your sentence.

Panther2995:

whilst ignoring the gen 1 gunner sights as if Leclerc isn’t running gen 2

@Panther2995

Because it is.

Trying to spot enemy tanks with thermal sight is much better than doing with naked eyes.

Using the gunner thermals at gen 2 is objectively better in game than commander thermals.

EDIT : just to prove a point

• vertical camera, off.

the HSTVL can actively pen through the entire UFP bar the very frontal section on the 2a6

EHAHAHAHHAHA

EDIT 2 - **furhter proves how littel he knows, with said camera angle turned off the leclercs frontal armour VS the HSTVL round is actually higher.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Panther2995

Have you ever heard player skill differences? I guess not.

Both are operated by the same group of people, aka French TT players.

@Panther2995

So you’re admitting that you only care about stats rather than having accurate vehicles.

Stats paint a better picture for the vehicle’s performance than random opinions in a thread about said vehicle’s sufferings.

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

So you’re admitting that you only care about stats rather than having accurate vehicles.

• You do not understand basic English.

• He is stating objectively. That your argument of :

• Leopard 2a6 > Leclerc in every possible way, is false.

• He has proven this, as others have, with the statistical capabilities of the vehicle in game.

@Panther2995

Also fixing inaccurate things about vehicles is not asking for buffs,

Asking for a fix, which improves the vehicle, regardless of reason for said fix, is in fact still buffing the vehicle.

Exhibit A :

• Turret rings where introduced as a realistic module for tanks.
• This is considered by many as a nerf, as it reduces the capabilites / survivability of the tank.

[Panther2995]

@MotorolaCRO

Stats paint a better picture for the vehicle’s performance than random opinions in a thread about said vehicle’s sufferings.

Average stats obsessor vs average historical accurate vehicle enjoyer.

We’re not the same.

[MotorolaCRO]

@An_Pigeon

Asking for a fix, which improves the vehicle, regardless of reason for said fix, is in fact still buffing the vehicle.

At this point claiming otherwise is just arguing in bad faith.

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

average historical accurate vehicle enjoyer.

None of these vehicles are historically accurate mate, haven’t been for a very, very long time.

@Panther2995

We’re not the same.

Again trying to fire that across to him as if it’s an insult to want the game balanced xD

[An_Pigeon]

He has resorted to just blatantly trying to insult / claim you are more insignificant with his last statement.

His argument of my vertical camera angle was on, actively worked against him, Leopard 2A6 hull is shown to be arguably weaker VS the HSTVL round at 500 meters.

[Panther2995]

Gonna keep yapping?

[An_Pigeon]

Going to actively produce something that makes your point ?

Any factual evidence or stats from vehicles provided or just ancedotal evidence?

By all manner of the statement, tis you sir who is “yapping”

[vizender]

Guys please take it to DM, the discussion you are having hasn’t been interesting to look at for a while now

[Panther2995]

I already proved my points, your just a yapping person who can’t accept the truth, hence why I stopped answering you.

[An_Pigeon]

What points did you prove exactly?

You’ve provided absolutely zero evidence nor sources to remotely back up any statements.

Means they are left unproven, your truth isn’t someone elses son, remember that

[Panther2995]

I’m not your son kiddo, know your place.

[vizender]

DM guys. We don’t need to call a moderator

[MotorolaCRO]

To be fair this one should be a /thread as it’s now been proven Leclercs aren’t in a need of a buff, let alone in “dire need”.

This thread is more than 2 years old by now, so it definitely needs a second evaluation.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Panther2995

Average stats obsessor vs average historical accurate vehicle enjoyer.

You can be for historical accuracy all you want but that doesn’t exclude vehicles from moving up in BR after getting buffs if they’re performing better than they should.

Leclercs are 2A6 equals, so giving them handouts will push them into the crowd that deserve 12.3 or more, like uparmored Leopards do.

[vizender]

@MotorolaCRO

To be fair this one should be a /thread as it’s now been proven Leclercs aren’t in a need of a buff, let alone in “dire need”.

This thread is more than 2 years old by now, so it definitely needs a second evaluation.

I don’t think I’ve seen a thread change name.
Also, I disagree with you on that point. I am of the point of view that :

• many top tier tanks should go much higher in BR (BVM, leopard 2A7…),
• while others should stay at the current BR if not lowered (like Ariete).

With the Leclerc as it is, I would not think that it’d deserve the same BR raise (but also not going any lower) unless it was buffed in multiple areas

[An_Pigeon]

@vizender

• many top tier tanks should go much higher in BR (BVM, leopard 2A7…),

abrams as well.

[vizender]

I personally consider the Abram to be in a somewhat similar situation as the Leclerc. Clearly not bad compared to others at its BR, but also not equivalent to 2A7 and cie.
As for which is better, I don’t really know, my only experience with the M1 is the AIM. I do think it’s harder to kill them than the Leclerc tho but it comes with its own problems

Edit : the vehicles that I believe should go up are the T80BBM, T90M, leopard 2A7 and derivatives.
The vehicles that are good but not exceptional are the type 10, Leclerc, M1. Vehicles that could go down are the ariete, challenger 2 and merkava. I don’t really have strong opinions the Chinese tanks and the challenger 3. They would probably still be okay at the same BR as the Leclerc and cie, but I wouldn’t say they are quite as good

Also, « going up », « staying at their BR » and « going down » is solely considering them in a vacuum, I’m not considering lower BR tanks. This might require an overall increase in BR with decompression

[Fanta_3412]

You cant hold W and press M1 in abrams like in T80