What? Are you stating the armor of a tank that was a prototype? It is literally explicit that it was a very raw version
It is literally explicit that it was a very raw version, both in the Swedish and Greek tests.
Leclerc only became operational in November 1998
And we have photos of the Leclerc prototype’s composite receiving the impact of the OFL F1 which already penetrated 600mm
Hello everyone, I’m new on this topic and I wanted to know if anyone did calculus for the upper front plate of the Leclerc (the topic is so long I might have missed it) because I think there is something wrong with its penetration value in game.
I was considering on comparing it to the Abrams which only use RHA for its upper front plate (I don’t know how Gaijin implemented NERA as armor thickness so I cannot use it for comparison measure). If so I will be analysing the upper front plate of the Leclerc without the NERA value (25 mm plate + 40mm plate).
And that’s taken out of context. The vehicle was not considered mature due to mechanical failures, i.e teething issues, not due to its armor.
I didn’t say it wasn’t a prototype either, but its armor had not changed since the requirements set up by the French Army back in 1988, why would they have changed after the 1994 trials? Wishes of French mains from 30 years into the future?
And we have photos of the Leclerc prototype’s composite receiving the impact of the OFL F1 which already penetrated 600mm
And this is said where in the image?
OFL F1 doesn’t even perforate anywhere close to 600mm at the angles we see in it, seeing as the actual rod is around 560mm… did Rheinmetall and GIAT break physics? As far as I know no APFSDS is capable of perforating over its own physical penetrator length at flat angles, not even the M829A4, much less a much older and vastly inferior OFL F1/DM43.
It doesn’t mention the simulated range either so that’s a worthless metric and you just assume a best case scenario.
On top of which the backplate bulged so lmao, it was near failure.
That comparison won’t yield you much as Lekek’s upper plate isn’t a subject to APFSDS-shatter mechanic that Abrams’ UFP is.
The reason why the protection is so low is due to Gaijin’s arbitrary decision to just underball the KE modifier btw, many tried to get it corrected and Gaijin simply isn’t budging.
The armor penetration value of APFSDS rounds doesn’t seem to be changing from different angles of attack. If this is the KE modifier you are talking about, it is weird why they implemented it as stats that are irrelevant in live matches.
From what i know the round dimensions is 26 x 600mm dm43 and F1 use a different propellent and are fired from different calibers (L44 vs high pressure L52) the f1 will essentially have more penetration purely because the round hits the target at higher velocities
From a source that i looked at a year ago the penetration of F1 was 600 mm at 2000 m am not sure of the angle of impact but i think it was 30 degrees or more i dont really remember i would need to find it again
Yes, and also due to the lack of Armor, as I repeat again, it was a prototype being improved
Any current armor citation on the Leclerc is commenting on its excellent protection and how it was improved over the following years.
Source no.1 just corroborates my words.
no.2 is nonsense and simply estimates, same with 3, 4 is just a pic of a model made by a user of the old WT forum (Laviduce), “protection against 125mm” doesn’t mean anything without details on ammunition, the last one is just “hon hon look at our technology hon hon” when the Germans and Americans achieved much higher armor levels, and the German one has a higher level of distribution on top of that as it has actual composite installed into its sides and not just side skirts like everybody else lol
You just threw whatever at me and hoped it sticks didn’t you lmao.
It doesn’t. That’s un-official, the actual penetrator is 565x22mm…
From a source that i looked at a year ago the penetration of F1 was 600 mm at 2000 m am not sure of the angle of impact but i think it was 30 degrees or more i dont really remember i would need to find it again
It was 60 degrees.
Nothing there says it was OFL F1 that was fired at that composite block, it literally just says the center hole was left by an APFSDS and the 2 side holes were left by shaped charge munitions.
Yes, “prototype being improved” in case you don’t read
lol? literally a statement by the French defense minister and a Russian military enthusiast
What are the correct estimates? Just yours, since you haven’t sent any sources yet
No, they didn’t say it was going TO BE improved, just that it needs improvements to meet UK’s requirements of 500mm KE at +/- 20 degrees.
In another document they straight up say the French Army is not chaging their requirements just to accomodate British needs:
You’re only posting evidence that fits your narrative.
lol? literally a statement by the French defense minister and a Russian military enthusiast
Vague statement + personal estimates, cool, so a nothing burger.
What are the correct estimates? Just yours, since you haven’t sent any sources yet
I’m Polish lmao, the NTW page straight up says:
“As evidence of armor’s capability, the French showed a photo of the hull’s armor module after it had been shot at with APFSDS (such as, for example: OFL F1, which can defeat up to 560mm of steel at a vertical angle)” which it can yes, under EXTREMELY favorable conditions from a POINT BLANK range (you can use L-O to estimate that). They don’t actually say that amunition was used, what conditions, etc, the Germans on the other hand provided the Greeks with an actual test vehicle and allowed them to pummel it with the best German munition of the time, the DM53, and it was stopping it, a projectile that’s superior to the OLF F1 and F2 (the stats for the F2 are at 60 degrees fun fact in that snipet…).
On the other hand, from actual Greek statements in regards to the trial we know the Leclerc only fares as good as the Challenger 2 and we have ACTUAL armor values for it, and they’re nowhere near what the Leopard 2 achieves/d (seeing as according to W-VK documents originating from Krauss Maffei themselves the prototype of the Leopard 2A5 had achieved a protection level of 650mm RHAe against KE in a 60 degree arc IN 1989 when the French were aiming 430mm RHAe KE across a much smaller arc), then there’s the fact the M1A2 SEP also exceeded those levels massively, reaching AT LEAST 650mm RHAe KE as well.
Tbh the only buff we could get rn is the armor for the s21 since its the only one that did get up armor
Russia only got carried by the very good CAS options they had for the last few updates and people shitting their pants as soon as they saw S1 on RWR.
If those are to be believed, it seems SXXI is missing a little bit of armor on its left cheek
In addition to the armor overhaul compared to S2 litterally doing nothing of course
The S2 should also feature an extra layer on the both cheeks (currently it’s a copy paste turret armor compared to the S1) while the s21 is thicker than the S2 itself. Actually, even the S1 in game, considering it’s an in French service vehicle, should have the same armor as S1OP got the S2 armor upgrades
Russian shells indeed have very wrong angle pen values. Gaijin thinks they have more pen because they’re flat nosed, but at 55 and more degrees they must behave like every AP and APC shell, they only must have additional 40-50 degree penetration bonus compared to sharp-nosed shells. They also have absurdly high limit for ricochet (73 vs 71 for APC and cuh 65 for AP, those are all unrealistic tho)
Played a couple of games again with my Leclerc and I am livid. Give it a lower BR or something, litteraly got nothing for it.
