Regardless of APFSDS types, I find it comical that Leclerc’s UFP can not withstand practically ANY shell.
France’s present-day MBT’s whole center of mass is somehow weaker than T-64A’s, the first MBT produced with composite armor back in 1970…
How does it make any sense?
Well, we know russian hull armour overperforms so
I really don’t understand you guys…
Why would you expect modern armor to stop modern shells ?
It’s not like tanks are made to fight other tanks,
Only the russians and the swedish have these,
As we all know.
I am more impressed by how bad Russia is, i knew the wr for them was bad but i didn’t think it was that bad…
Though i guess in all fairness basically nobody but mains is playing Russia atm so.
So, the prototype Èclair is kinda fun for a 10.7.
Meanwhile Leopard2A7V and Strv122 says hello.
Yup, compared to the Leo 2a4, the msc is much better.
Leclerc’s design requirements were 420mm KE /40 degree arc and 350mm KE /50 degree arc (this is less arc armor than the Leopard 2A0 had in 1979 for reference). There is a reason why Leclerc’s turret in the Swedish Trials wasn’t even protected against 500mm KE at +/- 20 degrees, bleh, they realised it barely had any against 400mm KE. Also for reference, the Leopard 2A4(C) from 1988 has better protection across the same arcs, and it in fact reached a higher level of protection across a wider arc than the Leclerc :D
Yes, nobody’s saying the UFP should be 250mm KE, but pretending it can be anywhere close to over 500mm is crazy work when the Swedes clearly showed the armor was much worse than that.
I think people should just accept Leclerc’s armor scheme isn’t that good, and it shows when MBTs 15 years older than it had more uniformic and frankly better levels of protection. It’s honestly insane how French mains (not you specifically) believe it should be even better armored when it quite frankly overperforms in terms of protection (with the upper plate underperforming) pretty much anywhere else lol.
This tank shouldn’t have the armor it currently has, and it also shouldn’t be at the same BRs as the actually well protected MBTs, but compression so shrug.
Even if armor can’t improve all that much, it should still do to whichever degree it could;
But above all, what Leclerc should get, is mobility improvements, just like Type 10.
Leclerc and Type 10 should accelerate SIGNIFICANTLY faster than they do now. If they are to be glass canons, at least they should have the uncontested mobility advantage they have in real life to make up for the weaker protection.
They do. All tanks accelerate too fast in WT, what should happen is that these tanks should keep their speed better when already moving.
Leclerc currently does 0 - 31kph in about 3.2 - 3.5 seconds (don’t remember exactly), everything from irl states it should be taking 5 to 6 seconds depending on the variant on the other hand.
uncontested mobility advantage they have in real life to make up for the weaker protection.
You are aware most other MBTs are AT worst 1 second slower to hit the same speeds, right? In fact some vastly heavier vehicles accelerate just as well (fx Leopard 2A7V takes about 5 to 6 seconds irl to hit 32kph, and the 2A8 will likely take slightly less due to having 150hp more bless the new powerpack).
Asking for fixes is fine, asking for fixes that are unreasonable and frankly unrealistic isn’t.
Type 10 tho i think is the only one that needs slight acceleration improvements as it doesn’t have to deal with power loss during gear shifts as the CV transmission just doesn’t experience them.
Not proportionally.
If every tank accelerate too fast, then EVERY tank is accelerating too fast proportioanlly and equally as much.
What I mean is- Type 10 and Leclerc should accelerate comparatively faster than the rest.
Type 10 accelerating faster is meaningless when every other tank accelerates faster too. It negates the advantage effect it should have.
For example, Type 10 accelerates twice as fast compared to Type 90 in real life; yet it accelerates slower than Type 90 ingame.
Therefore, Type 10 should accelerate even faster so it has the faster acceleration in relation/proportion.
And you know what it will accelerate faster than if they ever this? Than T-series and ZTZ’s, and the CR2 (it already accelerates faster than it tho massively so this one doesn’t matter), won’t change anything for the rest.
I think it’s quite simple;
In real life, Type 10 and Leclerc accelerate faster than everyone else; therefore, so they should ingame.
Whether that implies them accelerating even faster on the already faster baseline or not is meaningless to me; it’s about the relative, comparative performance, not about a global parameter that impacts everyone simultaneously therefore negating the relative differences that should be there.
Type 10 and Leclercs’ whole points is to sacrifice protection for mobility, yet, at the present time, their mobility hardly compensates for their lack of protection.
Exhibit A;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/14jlxpu/as_you_can_see_here_type_10_has_significantly/
You forgot to mention that the leclerc that was sent to the trials was a pre production
Also the UAE tested the production leclerc
They DO THAT when compared to what they’d face in real life lmao i.e Russian and Chinese MBTs. Arguing they need mobility buffs because their western equivalents are about the same in terms of mobility is asinine.
They’re both already more mobile than pretty much every single T-series (BVM is an odd one out), and the Leclerc isn’t exactly special in terms of acceleration among Western MBTs when it has about the same level of acceleration IRL as do Leopard 2s, with the heavier ones being slightly slower (and they are in WT too, or at least were when i tested them a year ago) so can ya stop this farce tbh.
Type 10 can stay as is, its acceleration performance is pretty on spot with some minute inaccuracies, what needs to be done is every other MBT needs to actually be nerfed to their real life levels of acceleration (would also make matches slower and more tactical btw), and this btw includes the Leclerc and the Type 90, both of which are a subject to this idiotic buff that Gaijin has just let be.
Okay, and?
A pre-production vehicle means it has already finished development you are aware of this, yes? Anything that happens after that is polishing any remaining teething issues, not major armor re-designs.
Type 10 should accelerate twice as fast compared to Type 90; yet Type 90 is accelerating faster ingame. It’s the exact other way around!
Not to mention the steering bug that does not allow it to turn remotely smoothly or without losing all of its energy and speed.
I think transmissions and powerplants should just generally be depicted more accurately, including;
1- Regenerative Steering (all)
2- CVTs (Type 10s)
3- Hyperbars (Leclercs)
4- Whatever Leopard 2A7s have that makes them accelerate faster as a trade off for their slower top speed.
All of that ALONGSIDE with sensible and realistic baseline acceleration parameter values, as you said.
The final outcome would be, more or less; Type 10s, Leclercs and Leopard 2A7s accelerate pretty much as they do now, maybe slightly better; while the rest of the MBTs would accelerate slower.
Yeah that’s taken out of context.
The rest of your post I agree with.
Yet the UAE trials demonstrate the level of protection is much better compared to the swedish trial the main reason is because of the change of composite material in the turret since the pre production leclerc that was sent to the trials only had layers steel and aluminum as composite armor for the turret which gives you around the same level of protection as the early leo 2
Production model like the s1 s2 and s21 have a much more advanced armor composition maybe not at the same level as a leo 2a6 or an m1a2 but its able to withstand an apfsds round demonstrated by the UAE trials
Source?
withstand an apfsds round demonstrated by the UAE trials
What round
What distance
What atmospheric conditions
Which part of the armor
Thanks