F1B and F1B+ are still the same penetrator as OFL F1, same length, same diameter, same speed.
they started using “uranium appauvri” with the ofl 120 F2, but the “uranium appauvri”
Same length as OFL F1 just different material, still just as worthless against Heavy ERA targets.
more recently comes the shard, probably the best in the world at the moment.
It’s at the level of the DM63A1 and vastly behind projectiles like M829A4 and DM83, and it’s not even in use by the French Army, whereas the other two either are in service, or will be soon.
So uh, congrats on proving it’s YOU who is talking about things you have no idea about?
lmaoo its funny how you know so many confidential information, is it a leak or just a poor lie ? because for now there are absolutly no information for the shard except that its a next gen apfsds t, said by knds them sefl, and you didnt say anything about the ofle 120 F2, except that you was wrong…at least its what you should say
Well I just checked all Leclerc´s armor ingame. S1 is hugely overperforming (primary sources indicate circa 420mm KE). S2 is about where I estimate it should be so it gets a pass. SXXI is underperforming a bit. But OG Leclerc should get its armor nerfed hard, if we want it to be realistic.
1991 and 1994. Both British and Swede sources corroborate each other when it comes to Leclerc protection values. There are no other public primary sources that give out specific armor values for Leclerc at this moment.
I only refered to the original Leclerc, not the S2 nor the SXXI. As I said, S2 is kinda were I estimate it to be and SXXI a bit lower than what I consider likely.
Even the French bug reporters acknowledge that OFL(E) F2 wouldn’t be really any better… so uh, keep yapping buddy? Surely you will arrive to a sensible answer sometime in the next 12 years, maybe.
There is no indication that either of them is wrong apart from French wishful thinking. Improving the armor beyond what’s shown in Swedish trials at next to zero cost in weight and volume is impossible even today (every other tank went up massively in weight even in 1990s to achieve their armor levels, some by as many as 5 tons, and y’all seem to be hardbent on believing the Leclerc can grow by just 500kg and have armor better than it currently does in game when Gaijin is already honestly giving it massive levels of generosity especially on the middle part of the hull lmao), even the Type 10 doesn’t achieve this despite using nano-metric ceramic steel alloys, so can we stop propagating this idea that somehow the French engineers are capable of designing magic composites? Thanks.
Yes waiter, my 580mm of composite INCLUDING the front and back steel plates can achieve 550mm RHAe KE in 1994 insert nerd emoji here, this is a fantasy. DU/tungsten armors couldn’t do that even with uber advanced NERA designs seen in the Leopard 2A5 and M1A2, but muh France.
SXII is much lower than it should be.
It uses titanium instead of regular steel on its armor.
Titanium is worse against KE than steel. It’s not nearly as dense nor hard, and the best alloys are only 0.9 as effective as normal rolled armor.
That’s not necessarily the case. There are several reasons: firstly, during some iteration of the prototype production process, at least those immediately preceding the start of mass production must be completely representative of the production model. In other words, if the prototypes are from dates close to the start of mass production, then they must be representative of the capabilities of the production model. In this case, the Leclerc tank began its mass production in 1991. Therefore, both sources from 1991 and 1994, if they refer to prototype versions, must be those representative of the production model.
On the other hand, even if the sources referred to a non-final prototype, as you are suggesting without evidence, the only ways the armor would be different from the production model would be either that the prototype armor does not meet the requirements or that these change during the development process. However, the sources themselves do not explicitly refer to any prototype; instead, they refer to the representative protection levels required.
For all the reasons mentioned above, the protection level of 420 KE is the protection level of the first production model of Leclerc, and it is the only value taken from publicly known authoritative sources at the moment.
thats funny that your source for the ofle 120 F2 is trully bullshit, since there are no information about this shell, except if for sure, you will trust a propaganda on a random blog or website… . For the shard, you know that velocity of a shell is an important details if you know others ? And you should know that the muzzle velocity of a shell depend also about the barrel use, like that just having the velocity do not says a lot about the shell. You also said that the shard was as the same level as the DM63A1, like you knew a lot about things that are for now unknow, you cant compare things that you dont know. The first dm63A1 command was around 2015, for the shard its around 2023, the fact that you say those two shell with 8 years of difference are on the same level without knowing anything about them is quit funny. The only thing you should trust is that knds said was a next generation shell… copy ?
Swedish trials took place in 1993-1994. By then, Leclerc serial production had already started. So the armor tested was 100 percent what was being produced at the time.
That’s the sources used by the people who know vastly more about the Leclerc than you do and actually do reports about so idrc, you seem very emotional tho.
And you should know that the muzzle velocity of a shell depend also about the barrel use, like that just having the velocity do not says a lot about the shell
Irrelevant. We’re talking about its stats out of the Leclerc’s L/52 cannon.
You also said that the shard was as the same level as the DM63A1, like you knew a lot about things that are for now unknow, you cant compare things that you dont know.
We have photos of the shell in flight it’s easy to estimate it…
The first dm63A1 command was around 2015, for the shard its around 2023, the fact that you say those two shell with 8 years of difference are on the same level without knowing anything about them is quit funny.
DM63A1 is still the same as the DM63 from 2005 and DM53 from 1998 so yeah.
Anyhow, you done coping or? Cus I kinda don’t wanna waste me time anymore on a le freunch dooode who thinks more with his feelings than his brain ngl.
Either case if it was a pre production sample (ie. still representative of the production configuration) or serial production (likely because we are 3 years into production start), it was equipped with armor at least as capable as required. Otherwise they were sending a bid with inferior characteristics on purpose to a trial they wanted to win…doesn´t make sense when you think it twice.
Or they weren’t on time, that could also be an other explanation.
Not that i would know of the leclerc’s internal (as nobody on that forum really knows, and if they do they won’t really tell) but the 3 leclercs sitting at the same BR in the tree is still quite sad to see