ah so i take it you dont want this parts?
Its the same base chassis, which you guys would need for the unmanned part
Its the same base chassis, which you guys would need for the unmanned part
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France can develop a chassis.
The Leclerc hull, outside of Gaijin’s representation, is a more than decent hull. There are at least 2 reasons you don’t actually see it in those projects :
- German turrets are to heavy, they won’t slap the Leopard turret on a Leclerc hull, that would defeat the point. As a bilateral project, it makes sense to use a leopard chase and French Leclerc derived turret
- France, for economical reasons, stopped producing hulls 20 years ago. Existing hulls are being updated, but they are used for in service vehicles only. As KNDS, which produces Leopard hulls, is now Franco-German, it would make absolutely NO economical sense to restart a production of Leclerc derived hulls.
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but really hasnt, the leclerc hull is not very good and you know pretty well, hence why the Leopard 2 chassis was chosen, still germany did had participation in the EMBT in fact KMW had participation too
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You truly have no idea what’s you’re talking about lol
ASCALON was developped by France long before Nexter and KNDS merged. In fact, the work started on ASCALON before 2016, since that’s when the Leclerc Terminateur 140mm was tested.
And even now that both Nexter and KMW have merged, business units of both Nexter and KMW still haven’t merged. You just don’t do that overnight. Actually, this process is going to take more than a decade
Nexter still develops its projects on its own (like the turret seen here as well as the 140mm canon and the 30mm turret) while KMW keep on developing its own things (pretty much only the Leopard 2).
Neither France or Germany wants to share with the other all the knowledge, IP and know-how with each other. The only reason KNDS was made was to take on bigger markets held by the USA or Russia. The full merging process is going to take decades. So for now both Nexter and KMW are still independent in the way they develop things.
That’s exactly why KMW keep on modernizing the Leopard 2 in parallel of developing the MGCS. They play both sides to come out on top either way.
Next time, take a step back and wonder if you know what you’re talking about before posting something uh ?
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He says, probably only taking Gaijin’s representation of the hull in consideration
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but i mean its wrong, its not an existing hull. it might already the upgraded unmanned chassis as well.
A lot goes into that technich as well to keep the crew save
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No, not really. Fuel tanks aren’t properly sperated from the crew, there’s not much space on the inside either. Pretty sure the bellyplate it isn’t V-shaped so it wouldn’t fare too well against IEDS and AT mines - then again they could just bolt a mineplate to the hull’s bottom and pretend the problem’s fixed. The armour pockets are also inadequate for today’s needs (hence why Leopard 2 hull was chosen as a base).
Well, it is decent, I don’t disagree on that, it’s just not more than decent.
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the project was made between KMW and nexter that have the company merged as KNDS, it is made with the participation of germany, and was called a franco-german tank for a reason, claiming that they didnt had anything to do its falacies when they both participated in it not only the french part of KNDS participated but the german part too
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I’ll also add that while EMBT’s hull is indeed based on a Leopard 2A7s, it isn’t “just an existing hull”. It required extensive modifications to accomodate the EPP w/MB 883 and the moving of the entire crew to the hull whilst keeping it space efficient. By this point in time it at best only bears resemblence to Leopard 2s hull due to its external shape.
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Fuel tanks are actually pretty decently separated from the crew, as can be seen from one Creuset_Loire patent on how to actually protect them. The leopard 2 hull isn’t more V-shaped than the Leclerc, so I don’t really understand this comparaison either. The armour packages (which is what I assumed you meant) indeed are inadequate (against APFSDS), but in the same way the Leopard 2A6 hull is. There literally is not reason to add an extra armor package in the same way strv122 and the 2A7s are equipped with. Once again, the lack of this upgrade is probably mostly an economical concern, considering the lack of those type of threats (even in Ukraine, where HEAT is still the main and mostly only threat)
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if im not wrong it even has a space for an extra crewmember in the hull didnt it?
I didn’t say the Germans didn’t do anything, I said they did nothing noteworthy on this vehicle or innovate like the French did.
If KNDS hadn’t merged, Nexter could have taken a Leclerc hull and upgrade its armor a little bit and it would have been the same thing.
The French made a whole new turret, with a new main 140mm canon, a seemingly a new coaxial canon, new APS, new radar, new optics …
Meanwhile the Germans brought an existing hull (which could be replaced by a Leclerc hull) and that’s it lol.
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Either way, the embt 2024 is a collaboration project. And the leclerc ascalon 120 is the pure french one
As a result the embt 2024 will be added into germany as well (at least until a 130mm version gets shown and it can be possibly split)
The 2A6 hull is just a 2A4 late hull barely any diffence. The 2A7 uses new internal armor+ the addon it’s not just a 2A6 hull with addon armor. It’s supposed to be as strong as the turret
KNDS isnt really merged its just a collab company to do their projects like the MGCS, and the EMBT its still a colaboration project.
they did all the modifications on the hull to fit the turret and to make it more modular together with adding some of their own tech like composite additions and even sensors, afaik
Are they separated by a composite layer with multiple bulkheads?
The leopard 2 hull isn’t more V-shaped than the Leclerc, so I don’t really understand this comparaison either.
Except it is? The sides curve to the inside creating a V-shape that is desired when dealing with mine threats, I don’t see Leclerc’s hull featuring that shape.
The armour packages (which is what I assumed you meant) indeed are inadequate (against APFSDS), but in the same way the Leopard 2A6 hull is.
Why are you bringing the Leopard 2A6 into this when it’s not even a part of the discussion? By saying “armour pockets” (not package) I meant the physical dimensions. Leopard 2s upper & lower plates can accept more composite armour then Leclercs outright.
There literally is not reason to add an extra armor package in the same way strv122 and the 2A7s are equipped with.
What?
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would wait for this, there isnt any stats on it and could easily be something else, as for the 140 i dont wanna rant too much about it but its pretty meh tbh, also KMW already had a crewless turret they just modified it and uparmored it so it can be fit as to the MBT
Meanwhile the Germans brought an existing hull (which could be replaced by a Leclerc hull) and that’s it lol.
Read the above. Leclerc’s hull would also require extensive modifications for it to house the entire crew inside the hull. They’d likely have to remove the frontal fuel cell for that as well, and it’d still be relatively cramped.
guys i think its better to bring the discussion here since we arent really talking about a leclerc
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So the involvement of the Germans in this project is redesigning the inside of the hull by removing fuel tanks and adding a commanding station for the 30mm. That’s still incredibly underwhelming seeing what Nexter brought to this project …