What I see is :
- A beautiful autoloaded 140mm canon (ASCALON 140) ;
- Decent hull armor thanks to Leopard 2A7 hull ;
- Loads of depression (probably -10° to -15°) ;
- A 20, 25 or 30mm coaxial canon ???
- A placeholder commander sight (I expect PASEO to take its place) ;
- Prometheus APS ;
- A M781 30mm canon on top of the turret for anti-drone capabilities (now called ARX 30 by NEXTER) ;
- Perhaps radar modules in the turret ?
Looks VERY spicy 😍
If anything, it shows how little the Germans are needed in this project
Feel free to take away the 2A7V hull and well, that’s the decent armour gone :^)
Two can play this game btw:
ah yes, you are naming it and completly forgettting it again
Besides that genius you are completly ignoring that germany has the lead in the mgcs project development and the embt
And in return france has the lead in the air system the fcas
So yeah… your tank that shows how little germany is needed. Is LEAD by the germans, great job
Yeah, the German truly are leading the project.
KNDS France making a whole ass new turret, German side slapping their existing 2A7 hull under it, and that suddenly becomes German. Not to mention that the EMBT is actually showcased in the French part of the KNDS exhibition
its a fact, dunno what you want to fight there
Besides that turret is nice, if france still cant develop a chassis doesnt change much either.
And again germany is the lead for the embt /mgcs project as a whole. That includes the turrets
knds france did the turret for the EMBT 2024 KNDS deutschland did the one for the Leopard 3.0 its still on the base of a 2A7 wich is still german, they wouldn’t be able to showcase the turret whatsoever if it wasnt by the hull unless they used a leclerc hull, also yeah it was in the french part of the exhibition cuz they wanted to attract the attention of the french clients
ah so i take it you dont want this parts?
Its the same base chassis, which you guys would need for the unmanned part
France can develop a chassis.
The Leclerc hull, outside of Gaijin’s representation, is a more than decent hull. There are at least 2 reasons you don’t actually see it in those projects :
- German turrets are to heavy, they won’t slap the Leopard turret on a Leclerc hull, that would defeat the point. As a bilateral project, it makes sense to use a leopard chase and French Leclerc derived turret
- France, for economical reasons, stopped producing hulls 20 years ago. Existing hulls are being updated, but they are used for in service vehicles only. As KNDS, which produces Leopard hulls, is now Franco-German, it would make absolutely NO economical sense to restart a production of Leclerc derived hulls.
but really hasnt, the leclerc hull is not very good and you know pretty well, hence why the Leopard 2 chassis was chosen, still germany did had participation in the EMBT in fact KMW had participation too
You truly have no idea what’s you’re talking about lol
ASCALON was developped by France long before Nexter and KNDS merged. In fact, the work started on ASCALON before 2016, since that’s when the Leclerc Terminateur 140mm was tested.
And even now that both Nexter and KMW have merged, business units of both Nexter and KMW still haven’t merged. You just don’t do that overnight. Actually, this process is going to take more than a decade
Nexter still develops its projects on its own (like the turret seen here as well as the 140mm canon and the 30mm turret) while KMW keep on developing its own things (pretty much only the Leopard 2).
Neither France or Germany wants to share with the other all the knowledge, IP and know-how with each other. The only reason KNDS was made was to take on bigger markets held by the USA or Russia. The full merging process is going to take decades. So for now both Nexter and KMW are still independent in the way they develop things.
That’s exactly why KMW keep on modernizing the Leopard 2 in parallel of developing the MGCS. They play both sides to come out on top either way.
Next time, take a step back and wonder if you know what you’re talking about before posting something uh ?
He says, probably only taking Gaijin’s representation of the hull in consideration
but i mean its wrong, its not an existing hull. it might already the upgraded unmanned chassis as well.
A lot goes into that technich as well to keep the crew save
No, not really. Fuel tanks aren’t properly sperated from the crew, there’s not much space on the inside either. Pretty sure the bellyplate it isn’t V-shaped so it wouldn’t fare too well against IEDS and AT mines - then again they could just bolt a mineplate to the hull’s bottom and pretend the problem’s fixed. The armour pockets are also inadequate for today’s needs (hence why Leopard 2 hull was chosen as a base).
Well, it is decent, I don’t disagree on that, it’s just not more than decent.
the project was made between KMW and nexter that have the company merged as KNDS, it is made with the participation of germany, and was called a franco-german tank for a reason, claiming that they didnt had anything to do its falacies when they both participated in it not only the french part of KNDS participated but the german part too
I’ll also add that while EMBT’s hull is indeed based on a Leopard 2A7s, it isn’t “just an existing hull”. It required extensive modifications to accomodate the EPP w/MB 883 and the moving of the entire crew to the hull whilst keeping it space efficient. By this point in time it at best only bears resemblence to Leopard 2s hull due to its external shape.
Fuel tanks are actually pretty decently separated from the crew, as can be seen from one Creuset_Loire patent on how to actually protect them. The leopard 2 hull isn’t more V-shaped than the Leclerc, so I don’t really understand this comparaison either. The armour packages (which is what I assumed you meant) indeed are inadequate (against APFSDS), but in the same way the Leopard 2A6 hull is. There literally is not reason to add an extra armor package in the same way strv122 and the 2A7s are equipped with. Once again, the lack of this upgrade is probably mostly an economical concern, considering the lack of those type of threats (even in Ukraine, where HEAT is still the main and mostly only threat)
if im not wrong it even has a space for an extra crewmember in the hull didnt it?
I didn’t say the Germans didn’t do anything, I said they did nothing noteworthy on this vehicle or innovate like the French did.
If KNDS hadn’t merged, Nexter could have taken a Leclerc hull and upgrade its armor a little bit and it would have been the same thing.
The French made a whole new turret, with a new main 140mm canon, a seemingly a new coaxial canon, new APS, new radar, new optics …
Meanwhile the Germans brought an existing hull (which could be replaced by a Leclerc hull) and that’s it lol.
Either way, the embt 2024 is a collaboration project. And the leclerc ascalon 120 is the pure french one
As a result the embt 2024 will be added into germany as well (at least until a 130mm version gets shown and it can be possibly split)