Here how the devs could add a DF105 counter part :
-Take an AMX13 hull
-take the DF105 turret
-slap it on the hull
It’s as easy as that. But yeah, 2.5 years might be a bit short for them to pull such a feat
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Yeah, while the turret is based on the 10RC turret, engineers where given more… leeway to slap the OTAN standard 105 instead of the underpowered 105 found on the AMX 10RC. That’s because the turret was meant to be mounted on heavier vehicles (such as the vextra) which can support the bigger recoil.
In terms of firepower, it would be the same as found on the AMX30B2 and later 105s, but it could get access to the OFL 120 F2 depending on its BR with about 495mm of pen if we use the L-O formula (source from Bossman ask him if you want infos on how he calculated it). Technically, this shell was used on the Brenus as well, but as it’s at 8.7, it does not have it. Stabilized VEXTRA could tho at 10.0+
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That’s great news, I feel like the stabilized version is gonna come, since without stabilized it would be around 8.3/8.7, which France already has 4 LT around that BR, and I cannot imagine a vehicle at 9.0+ without stabilizer. Btw what do you guys think about the new sub tree tho, France already have 5 lines, will Gaijin Merge the two mbt lines into one and add one tree dedicated to Benelux like Hungary in Italy? Or will they just add vehicles randomly inside the current lines?
I wouldn’t underestimate Gaijin’s ability to completely misinterpret what a tech tree needs. As France has been neglected throughout the years and only got a few useless additions.
If BeNeLux is added to France, they’d probably just add them throughout existing branches.
We don’t have any room for different branches to be merged just to create an underwhelming one.
But I still think the entire thing is stupid, even if it’s true or not.
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Netherlands isn’t needed at all nor do I think it really has a place in France. Belgium only would be very beneficial and supplement France very nicely - note how I say supplement not substitute indigenous French additions as I fear the devs will do. Two or three Leopards 1 (Belgian modified of course) could help shore up lineups but it’s really only needed if there’s ever massive (albeit necessary) BR decompression that would extend the current top-tier BR to say 13.7.
The Cockerill projects will be very nice though and Cockerill participated in quite a few (to say the least). Also, whilst the turrets are manufactured in Belgium, all the FCS (except for a few) and weapons systems are French.
But like I said, I don’t really want to see CV90s and Dutch Leopard 2s (which are in German service lol) in the French tech tree - had I wanted to play those vehicles I would go play Sweden. Were the SXXI fixed it would one of the best vehicles in-game for all intents and purposes and easily on par with the 2A7 since the armour upgrades were quite extensive (though not at the same level as the 2A7) and “good enough” for almost every top-tier shell across the hull and turret.
On the note about armour, reports on it will come soon; however, there are a lot of sources and it would take some time to put it all together. Also, for every bug report that gets pushed through for the Leclerc about three other bug reports can receive fixes lol. For real though, give the devs primary sources and they won’t even increase the the coax MG ammo capacity by 150 rounds yet they’ll happily increase the VAB’s engine horsepower by 50%.
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Personally I think it is was a shitty idea to add BeNeLux to France. We had the chance to have the only Tech Tree with no copy paste at top tier but now we will get tons of foreign copy pasted vehicles instead of home made original vehicles. By the way, it also means that we will see a lot less french vehicles in the next updates…
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Sucks to suck I guess. Having something added against our wishes is definitely not a very good feeling. I don’t really like being told to just suck up the additions as well.
I definitely agree with you in that sentiment. We likely won’t see French developed vehicles for a long time because we have vehicles that will likely be copy-paste. So we will likely be told to stop complaining since we finally have something. Even though it’s something that hasn’t been asked for. The French tree could ultimately lose a lot of character that has made it unique, the waste of potential could likely be fatal as France has had a lot of it that hasn’t gone anywhere…
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Belgium Ground forces ? why not. While they use Leo 1s that could actually fill the MBT gap at around 9.0 (and don’t start me on the AMX32s), they also have lots of funny stuff that could fit nice with the French TT (mainly Cockerill vehicles, which while Belgium also has lots of dealings with France). Air ? they would bring some f16s and later down f35s I guess ? Won’t really matter, M2K and Rafale still fit the bill, and some could say that would add some diversity.
Netherlands tho ? That’s a bit stupid in my books
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Belgium ground forces is for the most part unique and would build upon what France already has going for it, the bigger issue is Netherlands which just doesn’t provide anything and might turn France into Little Sweden depending on how the devs handle it. Belgium is nice, Netherlands can go to Germany.
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there isnt really a gap at around 9.0, the gap is between 11.7 and 9.7
This is indeed the intention of sub-trees, which isn’t a bad idea on its own. However I do share the pessimism that it is highly probable that France will suffer homogenization like the other trees have. The only benifit I would see is that France would get an F-35, so it won’t be the only nation without a stealth jet.
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9.x could be filled by many HOME-MADE light tanks and 10.x could be filled with all Leclerc’s prototypes + light tanks like the Jaguar. I still think BeNeLux was a bad idea. What is the point of adding Leopard / F16 to a unique tech-tree ? The only valable argument for a sub tech-tree would be in the future with stealth fighters. In this case, belgium’s F-35 would be welcomed (even if rafale F4 or F5 might be an equivalent).
Once again I find it really disapointing to ruin the only Minor nation (thanks Gaijin btw) which is almost totally unique and could be developped with domestically produced vehicles if developpers were somehow a bit more receptive to the french community requests and needs.
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So what? If I’m playing France its because of the Rafale, why would i want to play an F35 in my french tree?
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having a f35 in a completely different line would not affect your capability to play the rafale. My concern with this is the homogenisation of different tech trees. France used to have the benefit of being unique (from Leclercs to Mirages), but if France start getting f16s and f35s, and UK getting Indian Rafales, China getting Mirage 2000, it loses it’s uniqueness
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Same conclusion for different reasons. Both of them are valid in my opinion and aren’t exclusive to each other.
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I only said this as a possible positive since France would be the only nation that wouldn’t have access to a stealth fighter otherwise. You would still be able to use the Rafale if you choose to do so. Funny enough you basically stated why I don’t use the ItO90 for French ground.
I just realized Benelux is the only way France gets a stealth fighter in a few years when they’re added.
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The Rafale modernizations give it some active stealth capabilities. But stealth for the most part is overrated, it likely will have little effect in Warthunder if nothing changes. So the F-35 and F-22 will have a small advantage.
The Su-57 is partial stealth in that it won’t light up on a radar. Then the J20 is likely only good from the front aspect.
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Depends on what you mean, but it is critical for most modern planes to have reduced RCS. Could be quite helpful vs radar missiles
Stealth is one part of modern warfare.
You can’t just expect stealth to be the thing that will decide a confrontation. If you can’t use stealth properly you might as well not have it.
If someone without stealth is in a better position then someone with stealth, then it ultimately wouldn’t matter.
If you’re already in Fox-1 range it doesn’t do anything for you either.