I’ll tell you this summer :)
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The simple fact that the 130mm is based on a 120mm but with a larger chamber. That means that the gun will ultimately be limited in its prospective upgrades at they will already reach their chamber pressure. As for the 140mm, as it is a completely new gun, it should be able to be upgraded further (higher chamber pressure, longer gun…)
And is bigger
RH 130 its made to be optimized for firing at high pressure with 20+MJ, the purpose of the cannon its to use every single bit of energy possible, and allowing to have higher pressure capacities for further iterations of a possible new apfsds, one of the worries of increasing the caliber its the higher weight and high lose of velocity and hence why 130 mm was selected as the main choice because this would be an issue unless it could achieve higher pressure.
Is this the same 130mm that was in that challenger 2 with 130mm
yeah, and its autoloaded btw
Interesting and makes sense as the rounds are gonna be even heavier so better auto load it
This can be “fixed” by increasing pressure limits, thus using heavier & more powerful rods. Secondly, due to 140mm using casetelescoped ammunition, its propellant charge is ultimately smaller than the 130mm’s despite the increased case volume.
As of now, Ascalon’s energy output is between 17MJ to 20MJ, so at the lower end of the spectrum it’s only somewhat more powerful than stuff like DM83 & M829A4, at the higher end of spectrum it’s only comparable to Rh 130 firing lighter & smaller test projectiles.
higher chamber pressure, longer gun
This can be done with a 130mm as well…?
The simple fact that the 130mm is based on a 120mm but with a larger chamber
This is just nonsense speaking. If Rh L/51 is “based on a 120mm”, so is Ascalon. Sorry not sorry, but both of those cannons are traditional in every sense of the word. Neither makes use of exotic technologies like
for example, US’s XM 360 ETC (Electrothermal-chemical technology) cannon.
Will probably be smaller than the Leclerc. French army want a sub-50 tonne vehicle. Ascalon is also supposed to be lighter than the 120mm L/55 (albeit 40cm longer).
In any case, I’m willing to bet an E-100 that France and Germany will end up splitting ways - then we can see which is better.
Only an E-100? Lad you better add your kidney to that.
KMW & Rheinmetall already received funding for a Leopard 3. MGCS will die within ±5 years.
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Last I heard the chamber pressure on the 130mm would reach the physical limit of the chamber itself, which isn’t the case with the Ascalon, which is what I tried to convey in my message.
that’s what they achieved meaning they couldnt achieve more until we get info about that
I’ve no idea where you “checked” then, because that makes 0 sense. Here’s what Rheinmetall had to say on the topic;
Comparing pressure levels in the L55A1 gun and in the 130 mm L52 prototype, Extreme Service Condition Pressure climbs from 700 to 800 MPa, Permissible Maximum Pressure from 735 to 850 MPa, Design Pressure reaching 880 MPa compared to the 760 MPa of the 120 mm system, an average increase of 15%, with a chamber volume of “15+X” litres compared to the 10.2 litres of the 120 mm solution, the “X” leaving the door open to further refinements. The higher pressure of course requires the use of different material as all components, including ammunition elements such as primers, have to be pressure-hardened to withstand new operating pressures.
These aren’t the “physical limits” of the chamber, but what Rheinmetall has been aiming for between 2016 - 2020 (“The development work 2016 - 2020” EDR magazine).
Even then, those stats don’t tell the whole story at all (as they don’t specify whether it’s for the chamber, the tube, the breech block etc etc):
Spoiler
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People, you’re getting off-topic here… This is supposed to be a Leclerc topic, not a speculative argument about highly classified prototype weapon systems we mere mortals barely know anything verifiable about.
And as far as firepower is concerned for the Leclerc, the problem stays the same : There’s always the option of the depleted uranium round OFL F2, or the new SHARD round that was recently “validated” for admission into service. This is by far the easiest way to allow the Leclerc to share the same penetration capabilities as the other current contenders at top tier.
Provided Gaijin actually decides to do something about it, that is.
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A lot of minor nation players are just that good.
Topic cleaned. Please stay in topic and do not start personal wars. Thanks
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It’s my understanding that the F2 is a minor upgrade to penetration
And there is very minimal information on the SHARD which would make it unlikely to be implemented unfortunately.
Would love to be proven wrong though.
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I wouldn’t consider OFL F2 an option; leaving aside the fact that it wouldn’t even be historical, it would also not provide any improvements over OFL F1.
Lanz-Odermatt Formula
OFL 120 F1 (Tungsten)
600mm x 22mm Tungsten penetrator
1790m/s at 0m
1690m/s at 2000m
Penetration:
325mm @ 2000m at 60 ° - 650mm LOS
OFL 120 F2 (Depleted Uranium)
600mm x 22mm DU penetrator
1720m/s at 0m
1620m/s at 2000m
Penetration:
320mm @ 2000m at 60 ° - 640mm LOS
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what is the weight of f2
Using the same geometry as the F1, the density that Gaijin applies to DU, and the L-O formula that they use, the F2 is indeed worse than the F1 lol
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