I can understand people being wary of it, or indifferent, but outright opposed makes no sense.
It’s not M829A3 that would absolutely break the game, it’s likely just a DM53-like round.
We agree, but to treat his “Idiot idea” from my point of view it is that we are opposed to it and it is also what you suggest in your previous answer…
to be fair i would focus the issues affecting most of the community and well that’s not france. france as my main nation i do hope it gets fixed but we low priority
I’ll support you on this : we need OFL 120 F2.
Actually, in my opinion, it’s not even for penetration reasons, it’s also for spalling reasons : for some reason the OFL 120 F1 has poor spalling.
I’ve played with the CL3143 and noticed you’re definitely making kills with it in spots you wouldn’t be able to do the same with OFL 120 F1.
Here’s the OFL 120 F1 against the breech of a T-80BVM :
And here’s the same with CL3143, exact same spot :
The Ariete makes the kill while the Leclerc doesn’t. And that’s why we need OFL 120 F2.
I won’t lie, getting additional penetration is also welcome in the face of Soviet Wonderland™ ERA that literally absorbs 250kg bombs, especially at range where Russian MBTs become virtually impervious to your shells.
But I’ll always come back to the reload rate : getting a better shell on the Leclerc would only be possible for Leclerc S.XXI or Leclerc S2 but Leclerc S1 would be left out of it. On the other hand, getting a 5 seconds reload would benefit each and every Leclerc and would actually justify losing a crew member (and thus survivability) to get an autoloader.
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Reminds me of the comprehensive bug report on mistral. Irrefutable evidence and still no change.
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Supposedly, the Devs can’t wrap their head around the fact that Western MANPADs are better than Russian MANPADs … Yes, it’s bad.
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Well, Mistral & ATAS are better than Soviet manpads in WT currently, just not as good as they should be.
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Only slightly better. Both ATAS & Igla have 10G tolerance, while the Mistral has 12G. On the other hand Chinese helis get 20G missiles …
But yeah, if it’s made by capitalist pigs, there’s NO WAY it can be better than the glorious soviet 1960s tech … right ?
Anyway we’re going off topic here.
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I was thinking more about fairness compared to other nations.
If i follow you train of though, why adding DM53 and M829A2 in the first place ? DM43 is the same round as OFL 120 F1, fired from 2A6’s 55 caliber it would have better performances too.
OFL 120 F2 has been produced rougly between 1996 and 2000, juste give it to S2 and SXXI like it was done for other tanks, be historically accurate that’s it.
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dont get yourself banned man
U right u right
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Anyway, in any case we should make yet another suggestion on the addition of F2.
Mistral is effectively worse than stinger and igla; its got worse flare resistance and and worse range due to a bug where mistral goes dead after engine cutoff. Its high acceleration combined with low gload also hampers its ability to turn making it overall less maneuverable than other manpads. So worse rang, maneuverability and flare resistance. The only thing going for it is the much higher explosive mass and proxy fuse.
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This has got to be a cancelled reload, I just don’t see how it’s possible otherwise. Machines don’t just perform 70% faster out of thin air, and 1.2s to perform an action as complex as a reload is stupidly fast.
It’s perfectly possible that the Type 10’s autoloader can indeed perform safely at a reload rate faster than 4s, but I just don’t see how it could do it in 1.2s.
To be fair, the S1 does have a slight advantage over the S2 and SXXI: It’s lighter, so it’s more responsive and has better turret traverse. And there’s nothing preventing a change of BR for the Leclers based on their shells.
That said, I do agree that a reload buff is higher on the list of priority than the OFL F2 (and an armor fix even higher than that).
Dealing with flares while using the Mistrals is legitimately rage inducing. It’s like the ECCM just doesn’t exists on that thing.
Meanwhile, Mistrals seekers IRL have enough definition to be used against trucks (which was done in Libya by French Tigres) and boats:
But apparently in game they can’t make the difference between a flare and an engine. Nevermind the fact that MBDA’s website states the following:
Ultimately it’s like Spookston said:
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Turret traverse time on all Leclerc models are the same.
Also little difference in mobility doesnt matter most of the time.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
You should be able to see how many games I have with the Tiger HAD (about 5000 ?) and yeah, I can vouch for how sad is the performance of the Mistrals.
It’s very hard to destroy jets with it, but damn near impossible to destroy helicopters because you basically need to deplete your target’s flares to land a Mistral on it.
That usually takes 3 out of your 4 Mistrals to do that. So out of the 4 Mistrals you can carry … only 1 will actually allow you to destroy an helicopter.
On the other hand, Stinger are basically impervious to flares for some reason (?).
So even if I’m ashamed to admit it, I pick most of the time Stingers over Mistrals for that reason, even though the Tiger HAD never carried them …
Very sad considering the Mistral is supposed to be nearly impossible to flare and thus being the single best MANPAD on the market.
But we’re drifting off-topic here, maybe we should get back to the Leclerc’s state.
We’re talking about something in the realm of ~5% more mobility here. 99% of players can’t even feel the difference.
All Leclercs gets the same turret traverse. Which is the lowest of all the top tier MBTs at 30°/s by the way …
We agree on that.
However I don’t agree here. Considering even Abrams & Leo 2 players are not getting better armor even though they’re constantly asking for it, France has no chance whatsoever to get better armor.
Thus, I believe reload should be our #1 priority.
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Same reason i stopped using my Tiger HAD long ago.
Current Hellfires+Mistral combo feels lackluster.
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For some reason I thought the addition of the AC led to a nerfed traverse. My bad!
Yeah I know, but it’s kinda ironic that the S2 is effectively worse despite being after the S1. This is why I personally wouldn’t be opposed to the S2 receiving the OFL F2 while the S1 doesn’t, it’d make the S2 at least somewhat of an upgrade.
But again, a better shell is my third choice when it comes to buffs.
Leo 2 and Abrams’ armor is at least somewhat viable (obviously not as much as russian tanks, but it’s more of a problem with how russian hardware is balanced vs anyone else).
The armor on the Leclerc on the other hand straight up doesn’t work and is ridiculously underperforming. I’d say we have pretty good reasons to ask for an armor fix regardless of the Leo 2/Abrams armor situation
Yeah, and on top of that you often have to deal with the Mi-28NM and Ka-52 and their vastly overperforming IRCM.
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Yeah it’s kind of funny, in a bad way lol
I see your point, but looking at Gaijin’s record, France is always 2 trains back compared to Germany and the USA so I’m ready to bet the Leclerc’s armor is going to remain largely untouched for at least the next 2-3 years, if not ever …
“Lackluster” is an euphemism at best.
The Tiger HAD has the worst top tier helicopter loadout by a large margin.
You’re half an Apache with a worse 30mm for the same cost …
Actually some Apaches have smaller repair costs than the Tiger HAD lol.
Tell me about it …
I used to use HOT-3s to destroy them. It was the only way to destroy them with the Tiger HAD actually since your Mistrals don’t work against them, Hellfire missiles trigger their laser warning (and you’ll be dead by a Vikhr before your Hellfire arrives) and the 30mm of the Tiger is a joke.
But since the ATGM rework, HOT-3s are very painful to use.
So now, when I see a Ka-52 or a Mi-28NM, I ignore them. If I can’t kill them, I might as well do something else.
But as soon as they target me, I J out and go onto the next game.
It’s just so ridiculous to have literally no means to destroy a helicopter that is just 0.7 BR above yours.
But hey, no Russia bias ;)
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that…
well Leopard 2 case can just install hull armor package similar to Strv122 and problem solve more easier than Abrams but well as we all know like it gonna happen anytime soon and if two didn’t get any upgrade just forget about Leclerc will get it (well don’t expect Gaijin will make miracle like Strv122 better round again)
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