Well Su-30SM is not performing on the same level as EF-2000 or F-15E nor Rafale it has really weak engines compared to them it can not dodge missiles like they do it bleeds speed and need time to gain it
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Su-30SM is not that bad. You make it sound like it has a worse FM than a Tornado and given you never have to defend against a Pantsir, what exactly cant you defend against?
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By that logic of “bad airframe = OP missiles” why doesnt the Tornado GR4 have FnF Brimstone 3s?
3 Likes
have you flown an f15e its a brick the only advantage it has over anything anywhere near top tier is its speed, it doesnt even have a particularly good missile load anymore
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The Kh-38MT doesn’t need a replacement, the Kh-38ML objectively does the exact same job as the MT does, but the ML is much slower at doing it and requires a bit more skin in the game than the MT, and the MT actually has proof of operational existence and being used in combat and on the Su-34.
The Kh-38ML would already be the best AGM in-game without the added benefit of F&F, barring maybe the AASM IR. The whole argument of it needing a replacement is a point pro-russian players are using to deflect the convo away from the fact they have no actual evidence the MT specifically ever made it beyond the mockup stage.
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Why Su-30SM must be balanced around sub tier vehicle ? 13.0 vs 14.0 this is nonsense
Yes and it can easily bleed out pantsir missile from 9-10 km making zigzag maneuvers
idk what kind of f15e you are playing because its turning circle is so large that there isnt a point trying to make zigzag manuvers because at 10km you wont get through the second turn before the pantsirs missile reaches you
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No. Pantsir missile doesn’t have a sustainer it will bleed all of his energy even an jet flying straght perpendicularly to the trajectory of a missile with speed above 1 mach from 10km is a difficult target and if it activley manuevering plane can just out run all enegry from missile
I believe Gaijin is intentionally hiding this post from being searched in the forums lmao.
Despite this being undeniable the most popular thread on the forums since it was made, it doesn’t even show up when you search KH-38 until you scroll down on the search list, I literally had to zoom out to get it in the same frame.
I literally can’t see how this could happen in any way other than them intentionally hiding it unless the search tool is just completely out of whack in every case. I mean even when you search KH-38 on google this is one of the first results so how isn’t it on the forums.
I mean some of these posts that appear above it literally have 0 likes on them, so I don’t get how they would be more “relevant”. I just can’t understand it but maybe someone else does and could enlighten me.
10 Likes
These are just not really good. You don’t see these systems used with alot success. Ppl dislike them that much that you rarely see these kind of CAS planes. Why are you even discussing that? No sane mind invests 850 spawn points in a Brim or Mav carrier plane.
While 38MT gives that kind of return, Its spammed and there’s almost no match without alot players losing their tanks vs. 38MT. It gives that much return to ru players, that they often spawn the other Suchoi to fire another volley down towards the map.
TLDR;
Likely not a case of gaijin trying to hide the post, the search function just seems to be a little funky compared to stuff like google, and instead of returning the most relevant/popular return similar to what you typed, it tries to find specifically what you typed regardless of how low the engagement is.
Its probably more just due to the fact that the search system is specific to what you wrote, and not actually to what’s popular.
My usage of the correct notation “Kh-38MT” is likely hurting the searchability of the thread on the forums, because others tend to use the incorrect “kh-38”/“KH-38” or a version without the hyphen.
So its not cuz gaijin is actively trying to hide it (I hope) more so than their search engine doesnt work quite the same as googles which is what ppl are used to.
14 Likes
That helps, but with the 45° gimbal limit on the AIM-9L you can lead the missile correctly for almost all launches that offer a decent hit probability. It’s not much of a factor for helicopters unless the user doesn’t know what he’s doing.
The F-15E does not run out of energy remotely as fast as the Su-30SM, and that’s the main weakpoint of that plane. Acceleration and energy retention of those two are very far apart.
Uhh, I see them quite often? Most people just use them for a suicide run into the enemy team.
I did mess around with it a bit and found out most of that myself but I have never really had a problem like this searching for any other individual topic on the forums ever, also its literally just 1 below what shows up without having to click more (which in turn brings up the actual search page instead of the mini one in the top right). I just don’t see how “KH-38” has any more relevant searches than this, it just doesn’t make sense to me.
The AIM-9 has pretty bad short range performance these days (due to increased control surface unlock delay & fairly late proximity fuse arming), and doesn’t have the seeker to actually make use of the good kinematic range that the sidewinder should offer.
Its easy to overcorrect, and pull more lead than is optimal and the poor acceleration and G-loading at lower speeds leads to a largish minimum turn radius during the boost phase compounds the issues, so the Sidewinder is fairly restricted at short and medium ranges due to the seeker not being anywhere near as good as it should be.
Which is where a properly modeled ATAS would be very useful due to the much improved kinematics.
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My experience is the opposite, really. In short/medium range engagements I get better results with the AIM-9L/M than with Igla/ATAS (and TY-90), and very comparable ones to the Mistral. The slow acceleration profile (5 seconds booster burn time for the AIM-9L/M, 1.9/1.4 seconds for Igla/Stinger) and lower Delta V (~820 m/s for the AIM-9L/M, ~1300 m/s for Igla/ATAS) helps a lot with the guidance start delay, as the missile will start tracking after much less range travelled. It doesn’t reach it’s optimal overload early, that’s true, but the maximum overload is significantly higher.
As for kinematic performance, the AIM-9L/M offers much less range in practise than both Igla and ATAS. I’ve gotten hits against non/minimally maneuvering planes out to >6 km with those, the AIM-9L/M has no chance to get out that far from a helicopter launch. I’m not sure if it may have drag values that are too high, but with how big the delta V difference is the better range of Igla/ATAS is probably correct.
It is easy to overlead with ATAS/AIM-9/Mistral, but that’s really just experience.
It really would be, even if it would probably lead to some BR adjustments for the lower BR vehicles that use it. With a 22 G overload the ATAS should perform like a slightly shorter ranged TY-90 just judging by Delta V/acceleration and missile mass. In short/medium range engagements it should perform better with 22 G overload.
i said it wrong. its the Su-75 checkmate, but still valid to the Su-57 also. when it was just a proto they tried to sell it.
lol, its the Su-75 in fact mb
If 9X is an IIR missile then your comparison is flawed. Currently those missiles would be unflarable and a guaranteed kill.
The IR → IIR upgrade is a meta defining moment, while giving more speed to a missile with already common guidance method really isn’t.
On the other hand, 38MT uses IR + IOG guidance which already is present in the game, with only difference being that it has more speed.
So following this logic, giving 15E a faster 9M wouldn’t be that much of an issue, if plane is found to be lacking in other areas to justify the addition.
Removing an AGM and replacing it with another one that has 2.2x less speed is a noticeable change, especially when speed is, by your own admission, one of the most important aspects of similar AGMs.
That being said, BR is just a numerical representation of vehicle’s overall performance which would definitely drop quiet significantly, so it’s to be expected for BR to drop as well.
Try removing top dart from 120S and give it DM23 as it’s best option. I doubt it would remain at it’s current BR for long.
Or counter point, the search is shit. Evidence you ask? I use it all the time, its shit haha.
partial search terms don’t work, its exact phrasing only;
17 Likes
Sounds fun and glad i missed that.
Last real fun thing i remember was when drones were introduced. I just reached the BR they were implemented to and had no AA to deal with them. It was actually the main reason i bought the 2S38 back then.
Before that i shot down helis with the Shturm.
38mt kill plane better than 9B