The Kh-38MT may not actually exist

[Alpharius11348]

absolutely no new evidence

so yeah probably didnt exist

[USthunder]

Ight sounds good, thanks.

[maguumo]

Those are not the ranges at which you can acquire a TRACK lock against tank sized targets in game.

[sudo_su1]

@maguumo

Pantsir is usually only a problem if you don’t really know what you’re doing in any of the capable CAS jets.

Again, I think the difference in opinions is due to the difference in game modes

SPAA gameplay is mostly the same in RB and SB, but aircraft gameplay is quite a bit more difficult, especially in regards to CAS

[DevilO6]

Can confirm. In ground Sim Roland turns from a meh sam to a absolute menace

[Segment]

@MythicPi

Now, the evidence for the missile NOT existing:

Funny.

@MythicPi

Mockup of Kh-38MT photographed at MAKS 2009:

This not mockup of Kh-38MT. This is mockup of Kh-38ME. Seeker is not specified. Mockup IS NOT evidence that missile IS NOT existing.

@MythicPi

2. Mockups of the Kh-38MT have never been seen in the “new” Kh-38M layout seen at MAKS 2017. Notice the new clipped wings for internal storage in the T-50/Su-57, replacing the old folding wings seen on the older mockups of the Kh-38M’s.

MAKS 2017 Kh-38MLE:

This is mockup of Kh-38ME with thermal seeker.

@MythicPi

3. The Kh-38MT has never been said to have been used in combat despite the Kh-38ML being used extensively

Many missiles were never used in combat, but that does not mean they did not exist.

@MythicPi

4. Afaik, even the mockup for the Kh-38MT has been absent from defense expos for years, if not over a decade (last picture I have a solid date on is from 2009)

This is not true. Anyone with eyes will see the differences between thermal and laser versions.
Kh-38ME with thermal seeker

Spoiler

Kh-38ME with laser seeker

Spoiler

@MythicPi

The in-game model for the Kh-38MT is not even based on any mockups of the Kh-38MT, it uses the model of the MAKS 2017 Kh-38MLE (SALH seeker)

Clearly not true and disinformation.

It is surprising how warmly the topic was received, much of it “proof of non-existence” being untrue, disinformation and misleading.

[MotorolaCRO]

This is what happens when you trust random docs you found on the internet or when you misinterpret them.
I just tested 38MT and no way in hell that you can get a target lock outside 13km, let alone close to 20km.

[sudo_su1]

The 20km is against target with max “signature”.
Different types of vehicles have different signatures in the game.

But yes, the practical lock range is not 20km (though, for example against the SPAA you could lock the ground underneath it, since the SPAAs often do not move, and the Kh-38 also gets there quite quickly).

[Thenighthunter]

They are it’s just at a range of 20kms you begin to have issues with terrain and map issues. I have been able to get a 20km lock with even a maverick not that the anemic performance of the missile did much for it. I believe the issue is LOD I would often see tanks phasing in and out of the ground around that range which leads me to believe that is the issue. I had less issues locking onto boats at that range even speed boats.

Usually around 12km you will have favorable locks on tanks. sometimes more depending on the map.

[Thenighthunter]

That doc is from a pretty trustable source.

Guided weaponry data (in-game values) ...

[maguumo]

@Thenighthunter

I have been able to get a 20km lock with even a maverick not that the anemic performance of the missile did much for it.

No, you haven’t. At 20 km you can get a POINT lock, that means you’re locked on to the ground, not a tank. You only start being able to get a TRACK (tracking a vehicle) lock at ~13 km with any of the IR AGMs (against tank sized targets, at least). Test it out in a custom match.

[MotorolaCRO]

@sudo_su1

But yes, the practical lock range is not 20km (though, for example against the SPAA you could lock the ground underneath it, since the SPAAs often do not move, and the Kh-38 also gets there quite quickly).

I said before that locking the ground isn’t really a reliable way to kill things, even AAs.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Thenighthunter

I have been able to get a 20km lock with even a maverick not that the anemic performance of the missile did much for it.

Yes, you locked the ground. If your lock isn’t moving with the target vehicle then you don’t have a tracking lock.

@Thenighthunter

That doc is from a pretty trustable source.

Guided weaponry data (in-game values) Honorable mention for Jaek_ for making amazing videos on missile on YouTube If you want to reach enlightment, then you have to spade the Italian heli line, no talisman/ premium/ boosters - Google Drive

Good, then you just misinterpret it.

[sudo_su1]

@MotorolaCRO

I said before that locking the ground isn’t really a reliable way to kill things, even AAs.

It’s a bit better with the Kh-38 since it’s faster, so it gets to the target tracking range or the target itself faster than other weapons …

[ron_23]

welp it isnt tracking the ground tho

[Nowel]

the 20km is only possible in ideal conditions agaisnt large targets like ships, agaisnt a tanks you will not get a track over 13km, this is the same for all IR guided AGM, tv for example says that it is 12, but you can only get a track under 7km

[sudo_su1]

When it says “POINT” in the overlay/HUD it means it’s tracking the ground.
When it’s tracking a vehicle it says “TRACK”.

[maguumo]

It’s literally saying “POINT” in your image. It can acquire the ground vehicle if it’s in the center of the FoV once the missile gets into tracking (TRACK) range (~13 km).

[ron_23]

welp you learn something new every day

good thing iam not a ground player and use the 38mt only occasionally for a2a

[UNN_Daedalos]

@maguumo

It can acquire the ground vehicle if it’s in the center of the FoV once the missile gets into tracking (TRACK) range (~13 km).

Can someone remind me again what is the max range of enemy AA ?