Your counterclaim is that notching mechanics in the game are realistic. Do you think it’s realistic that a missile would not be able to track a plane against clear blue sky without ground clutter behind it?
The burden of proof that you are assuming is that I need to access information that is either backed up by public studies or that which is classified.
The fact that we see absolutely no mention of it in any kind of public domain and no mention of its utility against even older radar missiles does suggest the mechanic is not realistic.
It’s an arcade game and the notching mechanic is one that is made for gameplay reasoning and is only very loosely based in reality. The same can be said for the flight models that only vaguely follow available performance figures or calculations.
Just gonna not read this part here are we. I wonder why they have a minimum range to defend at. I wonder why they recommend defending at missile timeout range.
It’s almost like it’s not the ultra reliable technique that it is in WarThunder and that if you tried to defend a radar missile at less than 10NM that you would probably die.
The goalposts have not been moved. Nothing in document indicates that it is a very reliable method for defeating active radar missiles; it is a tactic but that doesn’t mean that it’s implemented accurately in the game.
Your source mentions notching as a tactic and nothing to its degree of effectiveness. In fact the great amount of consideration that is placed on everything else in the missile timeline suggest that it is not necessarily the best option as opposed to shooting a missile from further away.
Nowhere does it mention that you can notch a missile while having it 30 degrees to your rear or having it against clear blue sky where there is no terrain to have to filter out.
A realistic notch gate is likely going to be much smaller than the roughly 30 degrees that we have in the game.
It doesn’t have to do with angles and yet document you are citing is using same verbiage that War Thunder players would use. Also not how it says 90 degrees…not 60-90 degrees.
Do you think modern doppler radars are not able to track a target that is flying 30 degrees away from it? Do you not see how very wide “notch” gate in the game is unrealistic? And that it has an impact on unrealistic way we play the game.
I can notch missile at point blank because notch gate is very wide. And this is intentional game design decision by Gaijin.
You will not find anything public that specifies exactly what notch gate AMRAAM or comparable missile should have. I think it is pretty logical to assume that advanced radar seekers can distinguish a 100kt+ difference in the target velocity and the background.
You still believe notching is a psyop, and is related to angle and not radial velocity
You get called out and double down, then shift goalposts
Then say you aren’t going to “argue in circles” when the only one stuck in a loop is you?
bro? hello? earth calling, get your head out of the clouds.
Well, OBVIOUSLY you must have the data to make a bug report, right? I mean, you know they’re wrong, because you have a source stating the right values… right???
I know it’s not a direct comparison cause the su-27 radar is a lot worse in terms of the tech used (twisted cassegrain antenna and not a planar antenna) and it’s a lot bigger
But nonetheless let’s take a look at the su-27 radar notch gates/speed gates.
It has a hard notch filter (no matter what) even when hardlocking that corresponds to around 80 degrees when locking onto a target below 3 degrees.
(subsonic)
however, when looking more than 3 degrees above the horizon, it will always be able to track a target even if it has little to no radial velocity.
Now if you applied this to missiles, just at a much, much smaller range, it would essentially mean that against the back ground of the sky, missiles would be essentially impossible to notch. And when below the horizon, missiles are still notchable, albeit with smaller, tighter notch gates than they have currently.
Target tracking is possible for targets below the ±150 kph notch gates, it’s just that it might be “unstable”.
Note VERTICAL LINE mode is sub 10km
It says that the velocity gate is ±150 kph closure speed. Which it approximates to 80 degrees at subsonic speeds considering the radial velocity component.
“free space” means unfiltered pulse. it switches to pulse, which can be chaffed… which forces the radar back into pulse-doppler, which is then notched.
That is
an extrapolation
would mean they would be chaffed because they would be in unfiltered pulse. Which is exactly what happens in game.
Documentation required for factual statement
Only at below 2km range, and unstable due to ambiguity
It literally states that the detection is constrained by the radial speed, not angle
