This is a fair, reasonable position, which I would, in the absence of any data either for or against, agree with.
Yeah but missiles in game are larger than 1m^2 so it’s moot point
There isn’t any documentation that shows modern ARH missiles being easily decoyed by simple piece of chaff and half loop like we can in game.
In other words you don’t have any documentation. Got it.
Do you? Or are we defending what is simply an arcade style mechanic for the sake of saying it’s realistic?
Is there any documentation that even slightly suggests that this would work in real life and with the degree of reliability that it does in WarThunder?
Why don’t real life pilots just vertical notch every missile? Are they stupid?
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hahaha, that’s not how it works, little one.
You make a claim. You have the burden of proof.
Nice try though.
Your opinion isn’t a source.
Your counterclaim is that notching mechanics in the game are realistic. Do you think it’s realistic that a missile would not be able to track a plane against clear blue sky without ground clutter behind it?
The burden of proof that you are assuming is that I need to access information that is either backed up by public studies or that which is classified.
The fact that we see absolutely no mention of it in any kind of public domain and no mention of its utility against even older radar missiles does suggest the mechanic is not realistic.
It’s an arcade game and the notching mechanic is one that is made for gameplay reasoning and is only very loosely based in reality. The same can be said for the flight models that only vaguely follow available performance figures or calculations.
This shows nothing about notch gates. Where is the proof of 30 degree notch gate that we have for missiles in the game?
your claim was
take the L.
Just gonna not read this part here are we. I wonder why they have a minimum range to defend at. I wonder why they recommend defending at missile timeout range.
It’s almost like it’s not the ultra reliable technique that it is in WarThunder and that if you tried to defend a radar missile at less than 10NM that you would probably die.
But the very realistic 12G loop goes brrr.
Your claim was
Instructions of when to notch do not change the fact that notching is a real tactic taught to fighter pilots because it does work.
You could just concede “yeah ok I was wrong” but no, you have to double down on being wrong every single time.
But please continue, watching you panic in real time, trying to move goalposts whenever you’re caught in 4k is hilarious.
The goalposts have not been moved. Nothing in document indicates that it is a very reliable method for defeating active radar missiles; it is a tactic but that doesn’t mean that it’s implemented accurately in the game.
Oh really?
Original claim:
You get bodied with a NAVAL AIR TRAINING COMMAND document INSTRUCTING TO NOTCH.
Then you pivot to:
Bro what is this amateur hour? You’re better than this (I hope)
My source is the United States Navy.
What are yours?
This is my original point.
Your source mentions notching as a tactic and nothing to its degree of effectiveness. In fact the great amount of consideration that is placed on everything else in the missile timeline suggest that it is not necessarily the best option as opposed to shooting a missile from further away.
Nowhere does it mention that you can notch a missile while having it 30 degrees to your rear or having it against clear blue sky where there is no terrain to have to filter out.
A realistic notch gate is likely going to be much smaller than the roughly 30 degrees that we have in the game.
How many times will I have to do this, old man
Ok AND??? AND???
Not only that, but you think notching is about ANGLES and not RADIAL VELOCITY.
Bro. What. Stop.
It doesn’t have to do with angles and yet document you are citing is using same verbiage that War Thunder players would use. Also not how it says 90 degrees…not 60-90 degrees.
Do you think modern doppler radars are not able to track a target that is flying 30 degrees away from it? Do you not see how very wide “notch” gate in the game is unrealistic? And that it has an impact on unrealistic way we play the game.
I can notch missile at point blank because notch gate is very wide. And this is intentional game design decision by Gaijin.
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
If the Vc < clutter notch filter, you won’t be seen by anything that uses pulse-doppler, no matter your angle.
That’s… very elementary radar physics…
Thats a nice argument but why don’t you back it up with a source?
Your distance to the emitter doesn’t matter because your closure speed doesn’t depend on it.
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
You will not find anything public that specifies exactly what notch gate AMRAAM or comparable missile should have. I think it is pretty logical to assume that advanced radar seekers can distinguish a 100kt+ difference in the target velocity and the background.
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