The grind on this game is still too much

Game Discussion General Discussion
1

lets break down all the things you can/have to grind on the game :

Vehicles: The enormous ammount of vehicles is both a good and a bad thing , but the bad side just comes with the method of getting higher tier vehicles , so you want the M1A2 ? good research 6 tier 2 vehicles 6 tier 3’s , 6 tier 4 and goes on , with on some cases you having to research even more than the ammount to reach next tier , Example: on a recent update japan got a whole new line for their air tree , prior to that japan was one of the only nations you actualy could just research the ammount of vehicles you need to get to the next tier with no extras , being much easier to reach top tier but now you have to research 2-3 more vehicles per Tier to reach toptier , increasing ALOT of RP you need to get the vehicle you actualy want
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Modifications : each vehicle on the game has modifications being said as upgrades to it , but in most cases if not all , they are the vehicle itself , adding the speed that it should have to ammo types that make the vehicle usefull and also important mechanics for higher BR ones such as laser rangefinder , all those research modules can take up to 100 matches to fully complete for an average-bad player
Yes I know that there is the bonus RP you get per fully tier you complete the module research , but wouldn’t it be better to just give everything on the vehicle ? I played 100 matches to get X vehicle now I have to play another 100 with it to make it usefull so I can enjoy it ? what ?

And im not even gonna touch battle pass & event vehicles , I havent grinded a single one of them , don’t fell like it and because of that I feel I cannot talk about it since I have no idea on how ridiculous is the grind for it

All those methos require SL the currency of the game and RP .

Im not a good player , I would say im very average and I get on average 2k RP per match and 5k SL going low, the maximum I remember getting on a non premium vehicle was 10k RP and 50K SL with boosters on , getting on rank 6 tanks took me an average of 280 matches on the leopard 1 lineup I used , 280 matches to get 2 tier 6’s , Having to spend SL and get enourmous RP ammounts IS DUMB , im jumping from 190k RP requiriments to 300k for the leo 2A4 , which will probally take another 100+ matches to get , for an normal person this grind is ridiculous .

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Making a topic is not going to grind that tree out for you, son. Buy a 365 day premium time when it is 50% in the sales and just hunker down and get grinding. Doesn’t matter if it takes you years to complete - games not going anywhere.

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Before you have finished the tree, this will have changed.

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Even with premium time is too much.

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He does have a point: I began to grind my first Leclerc before focusing on the French navy.

Netherland tank were added and i just discovered that i have to grind three others lines now to able to grind the Leclerc line.
The grind become excessive again and even if i have the AMX-30 Super to help, this is something that make me want to quit rather than buying a premium account (and i don’t have the playtime to make it worth the purchase anyway)

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Its like you’ve hit LeLimit

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The game play is just trash! Its getting worse and worse. I don’t see it ever recovering the way it is being operated currently!

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If gaijin devs actually play the game then it would be better
they should buff the economies
What i think they should do, buff current ingame reward first
Ground Arcade: +30% sl and +15% rp
Ground Realistic: +75% sl and +30% rp
Air Arcade: +40% sl and +25% rp
Air Realistic: +60% sl and +40% rp
Ground Simulator: +75% sl and +45% rp
Air Simulator: +65% sl and +45% rp
Ground Assault: +100% sl and +100% rp
Air Assault: +100% sl and +100rp
This would help on some aspect for mainly f2p players
But ofc gaijin 99/1 wouldnt

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100% AGREE

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Currently I’m grinding tech trees exclusively with premium account + premium vehicles (at least until like rank 7), and it still takes too long
There are tons of tech trees, each of which requires ungodly amount of time to research even with full premium and nation research bonuses.

For me Air is not that bad, because for a 4 kill 15min game you can earn 30k+ RP on rank 7 premium, but for ground you almost never do that even with 10 kills 20min game, even if all of that is on a premium vehicle.

And number of vehicles keeps growing, and RP required to research top tier will also keeps growing, gaijin NEEDS to either increase rewards significantly, or reduce the amount of RP needed for researching, because for some nations, requiring 400K rp for each vehicle in a single rank is simply not enjoyable

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yes, but this is how Gaijin makes money.
Therefore I am for making this game pay to play and removing the grind for modules, vehicles etc, and just play for fun

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Arguably, a lot of people buy premium account/vehicles not because they don’t want to spend time on the game, but because they want their time to have more value, and those people will keep buying premiums.
I doubt there will be a lot of players who stop spending money because they can research stuff quicker. And even those players will be replaced by new/returning players who will now actually want to play the game because it would be more enjoyable for them and less stale.

Spending dozens of hours playing the same vehicles over and over again is never fun, and you it most of the time while grinding

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Also, war thunder is not the type of game that will survive on pay to play model. It’s constantly developing and is basically a live service. It won’t survive without some sort of microtransactions, donations etc

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because we have a grind, so you don’t acces a grinded vehicle.

yes, this is how Gaijin makes money and why the grind is as horrible as it is.

it is, if it would be designed to be fun. Like you don’t grind weapons in CS or only cosmetics in stuff like Fortnite.
So it is an additional thing, not the main gameplay.

if you have a f2p model you attract people for this, if you have a p2p modell you attract people for that.
And with how fast the average player enters and leaves the game in f2p games, this change wouldn’t be slow.
As bad as the monetization of iRacing is, it is the best, therefore people pay the subscription and for every track etc.
DCS would be the closer thing, where you pay for the campains, maps and vehicles, but have artificial grind.
Just you wanting to become better, do missions that are fun for you etc

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This is a normal way for F2P games to make money - to either make the content, that you need to grind, available instantly for money or to speed up getting this content for money. And it’s fine, as long as it is accessible to the regular non-paying player in a reasonable amount of time. And that’s the big issue here - top tier vehicles are not available in a reasonable amount of time. You literally need to spend hundreds of hours just for a single tree (TREE, not even a COUNTRY). And even then you probably take shortcuts by, for example, not researching one of the branches.

The difference here is that in CS and Fortnine you have everything that is important to gameplay available for everyone equally. And the main selling point of those games is different. One of War Thunder main selling point is a huge number of realistic-ish vehicles. And guess what, you won’t be able to experience most of those vehicles EVEN IF you buy premiums. And when you have a lot of potential options on what you “can” play, and meanwhile you spend dozens of hours in the same vehicles, it becomes boring and repetitive.
Also, returning to your examples - you don’t need to pay anything to play Fortnine. And yet people still spend LOTS of money just on cosmetics. Same goes for CS (apart from buying the game itself). That’s what happens when the game is actually fun and enjoyable for most players most of the time, which war thunder honestly lacks.

In order to make war thunder work with pay to play model, you need to significantly change how the game works. Probably to the point where it won’t be the same game anymore. Grind is not always bad, but it needs to be done right

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Make no mistake - War Thunder and by virtue - Gaijin, do grind right. Grind is why we’re addicted to this game and not off playing Battlefield and having every vehicle handed to us with no effort. There is a whole psychology behind grind-based games and this isn’t new. People may think they hate the grind, but they actually love it even if its at a subconscious-level.

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Therefore I prefere a pay to play with no grind, instead of the f2p with grind.

And War Thunder should be the same. It should be about having fun in game, not reaching a vehicle.

and this makes it even worse.

Yes, and Gaijin does the same and yet we still have the horrible grind.

Yes, the main issue. They are making the game this way, so people have to pay money to achive something, not have fun and want to pay money to be extra cool.

I know. We would need a War Thunder 2 (which is basically a thing we need either way)

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No we do not and the whole pay to play model would be a disaster. One of the best things about War Thunder is that they have continued to grow and evolve this game for over a decade - the game is a whole lot different both gameplay and graphics wise since back in 2012. Why do we need War Thunder 2?

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I only partially agree.
We have parts in this game that are 10+ years old and it is starting to show.
Yes, they upgrade their engine and add new stuff, like the custom loadout feature, and this is great.
The thing is, you notice as a player that looks deeper than this, that some stuff didn’t change.
That this game isn’t on a 2020’s standard, but partially 2010’s standard.
Like no steering nose wheels, the MEC, the collision physics (and limits of those (so variable sweep wings, don’t change their hitbox, bc their one slot is tied up by the extracting gear), which they argue is from their engine, that they build and can change but this is another story), the map fidelity in air battles (just look at the ground textures, trees, houses etc, even with all the texture packs) and more.
Yes, lots of things got renewed (like they are finally working on DX 12) but also some important bits didn’t.

see above:
Because the game changed and adding stuff to an existing code base etc, while having compatibility to other things is way harder than writing it new.
This is why we have CS2, Planet Coaster 2, or completely new architectures, like GCN vs RDNA, not just upgrades from RDNA 1 to 2 to 3 etc
Because there comes a point where you have to rewrite everything to advance significantly.

To be clear, we haven’t reach this point, but you can see, that we get closer.

PS: also regarding implementing new vehicles, we are approaching a limit of kinda unique ones etc, which isn’t an issue now, but you can see, that we are approaching this issue, where there is now more copy pasta vehicles, leand and lease vehicles, and way less vehicles that are/were in service etc, that aren’t implemented.
Yes we have the South Korean (sub-)tree with unique vehicles, and Turkey etc, but adding Argentina with mostly British stuff is a thing, that hasn’t the attractiveness as adding the Italian vehicles had.

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If gaijin wants war thunder to exist for 20 more years, then sure, at some point they will need to make a complete new game with treatmant like CS 2, and that has a lot of other issues itself. But just making a new game is not enough to make people play the game.
Gaijin has a lot (and I meant it, A LOT) of ways to improve the current state of the game without the need to even think about completely different game. In fact, a lot of changes can be done in a very short period of time, assuming they commit to them.
The main issue we have is that devs are, simply put, ignorant about a lot of obvious issues (or they are told to not care, who knows). If they are not willing to fix what clearly needs fixing, they shouldn’t make another game, because it will just end up in the same state

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