My point was that this treats the symptom, not the infection. API is disgusting, that’s a known fact. Removing it from one SPAA (one of the weaker in the bunch) will not change a lot.
I never said remove it but a different option of cancer lol I’d much rather have 640 rounds of funni apds then API (mainly because it annoys people)
Yes, I think its long overdue to totally invert SPAAG logic. Instead of penalizing them for killing tanks, give all of them their missing anti-armor rounds, undo all the nerfs to said anti-armor rounds, and let them go nuts.
For example, the M163 is missing its APDS and FAPDS belts. The Shilkas had an APDS belt of Polish origin, which I would not mind one bit being anachronistically given to all Shilkas just to make the screamers go ballistic when suddenly their target practice SPAAGs can actually fight back. Give the Falcon back its APDS, along with the AMX-30S DCA. Give all other Oerlikon 35mm SPAAGs the option to stock as much FAPDS and APDS as they damn well please provided the rounds will fit the racks, same with the Otomatic. Give the 37mm Flak43/44 their missing APCR (which the Stuka G2 for example has, and give the plane gun the APHE the SPAAG has). Give the 40mm Bofors cannons regardless of nation the currently Swedish-locked APHE rounds, and give them all their missing APDS rounds. Correct the shell velocity of the APHE rounds on the Bofors L/70s to match the higher-velocity AP rounds. Give the M247 its missing AP, APHE, and APDS rounds as its using Bofors guns. In other words, give all SPAAG “the 2S38 treatment.”
Instead of constantly beating SPAAGs with a nerf bat and then wondering why CAS is a problem because nobody plays SPAAG due to it being defenseless against all tanks, why not instead address the root causes of the issues with them globally? Namely those are two things:
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Barrel damage - this enables SPAAG to shred things they cannot frontally pen and render them helpless to sit there while the AA strolls up to finish the job.
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Non-volumetric armor models still existing on the majority of tanks - they are full of microscopic holes, gaps, and seams that allow high RoF SPAAG to slip shells through
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Cupola shots being a thing at all.
I’d argue the SAPHEI rounds are not disgusting, but rather the people screaming about them are hypocritically disgusting. The very same people who cry about SPAAGs with APHE now also proceeded to vote “No” to even TESTING realistic APHE postpen - thus they deserve Every. Single. Bullshit. Death. Imaginable. Because they asked for it in said poll by denying even TESTING the change, let alone implementing it.
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That I can get behind. And if ppl complain abt SPAAGs being to OP make more long range maps. The 48mm pen APHE on the ostwind won’t do jackshit against an M4A1 at 2km for example
or make them better SPAAs by adding and forcing them to use HE-VT with no API or with only one API in any belt
Glad you understand - I have seen people bitching about some variation of this since back when the Whirbelwind was a historically accurate effective side shredder with 65mm pen APCR. Which is when I joined the game in update 1.51. The target of the complaints has changed but the underlying problems have not.
Exactly - even all the missing subcaliber rounds on autocannons of all flavors will lose energy pretty fast if below about 57mm in size because they’re small rounds.
Funnier fact - that round is supposed to pen 65mm. And technically the Coelian’s cracked guns firing that round with a bigger cartridge for 90mm pen would likely have been given the same missing APCR round on a bigger cartridge, too. One can only imagine how lethal that would be.
We see another buff for Coelian without it returning to TT while F-16AJ exists and I will explode
that said, I’m all for it
I love my Coelian. It plays more like an AFV than a AA.
Lucky duck. If only I’d picked up WT years ago…
See the usual argument of “keep nerfing or removing AP to force them to act only as AA” is both unhistorical and frankly backwards for game balance.
SPAAG need to actually move with their team’s tanks to protect their team’s tanks from CAS. Yet average players will never move beyond spawn unless its to cap a zone and die intentionally if said SPAAG cannot kill tanks at least through the sides reliably. Therefore, the whole game needs to do a 180 and stop neutering SPAAG - after all, so many people hate CAS, right? Then why keep slapping one of the best counters for it upside the head?
Make gun barrels invincible to bring them in line with how the game allows them to phase through walls. Then the SPAAGs cannot disable your ability to shoot back. Give them all their missing anti-armor rounds, remove idiotic limits on anti-armor rounds, and address any black hole parts of their damage models making them tankier than they should be.
Then, anyone who wants to kill them can. Anyone who isn’t paying attention can and will be melted.
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Thats stupid lol
If it were up to me I would re-introduce all the removed “fake” vehicles to the trees. If some feature about them is physically not possible, then remodel them so they ARE possible.
The Panther II cannot physically fit a long 88 in its current Schmalturm turret. But Krupp had blueprints on a modified turret designed to fit the thing properly - so just remodel the King Panther’s turret by those very blueprints. Done.
The KT105 would need a wider, longer turret based on the plans for the Lowe to properly fit its gun with its accurate gun breech. Sure the APCR round is totally fake but honestly leave it there.
The Coelian’s hull was a standard Panther, the turret was only a mockup but the guns were real. It’s completely possible from a physical standpoint.
I own all three of these and badly want people to have access to them.
Meanwhile the R2Y2s are physically possible, though fake. The Ho-Ri Prototype is also physically possible and using a Chi-Ri 550hp engine. But the Ho-Ri Production is a total fabrication, so frankly the best way to make that thing physically possible is to cut the engine power to the same 550hp and dramatically lower the BRs of both (Prototype to 6.0 and Production to 6.3).
Another totally fake impossible fabrication is the rare old event British D.521 from before France had an independent tree. It has a Hispano firing through the propeller hub, but has a Merlin engine which physically cannot fit a gun through the engine block. Yet France had plans to fit twin wing gun mounts like on the MB.152C-1 or MB.157, so the plane could be remodeled wing-wise closer to those two.
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The Coelian is how ALL SPAAGs should play in my opinion.
Also given the BMPT is such a problem at high tiers, why not add the Abrams AGDS and let cancer kill cancer?
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This should go for all auto cannon vehicles, but all belts apart from stock ones should be full of that one type of bullet. AP/AP/HE/AP or APDS/APDS/APDS/HEI is stupid when said belt is named “30mm AP” or whatever not “30mm AP with a random HE bullet in cuz fuck you”
Alternatively, why not unify the logic of all ammo belts on planes, helicopters, boats, ships, and tanks while letting people make fully customizable belts of whatever they want?
That’s the ideal world but do u actually think Gaijin will do that?
ideally tho yuh
FAPDS’ penetrator is a tad lighter, at least according what I managed to find, so less pen.
However, FAPDS comes in non-tracer variant and I’d like to have a belt of those.
I only see one problem: most TTs don’t have an Abrams AGDS/BMPT equivalent
It would literally ease their workload in the end by having everything operate on one system. And ease player complaints about filler rounds in belts. Literally everyone benefits.
Honestly, I feel like the #1 rule of War Thunder should be “if it exists, somebody has complained about it.”
Some people will always find something, anything, to complain about in order to not dare look in the mirror and thing “wait, I died, and it was my fault I wasn’t paying attention or thinking.” The whole game has been bleeding its soul out for over a decade from a thousand and one small nerf-cuts.
There is a suggestion on this forum for customizing ur belts. Gaijin has not acted on it in its years of existence. That would beg to differ. But yea I would love being able to take full SAPHEI on L-62 or something :3