With the limited-to-early-era weapons WT assigned to this model and the pathetic underrated radar, the F-4S has a way overrated Battel rating. But the Russians do that to pump up their inferior Migs.
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I think the F-4S at 11.7 will cause more disruption to the other planes in that bracket. F104, Tornados, Mig23s, Currently, it’s a haven for 'relaxed gameplay without missile spamming.
More compression is never the answer. The problem is the presence of Fox3 planes at 13.0 that are too strong for the F4S and other 12.0 planes. The only that’s good enough at this BR IMO is the Tornado F3 thanks to the excellent radar and RWR.
The Viggen Di, as bad as it is, still carries Fox 3. The Harrier FA2 and the AV8B+ are also way too dangerous, and the KWS should have never gone down from 13.3 (especially since the F3 late is still 13.3).
Move the BR up again, we need to completely separate planes with bad RWR and Fox 1 only from ANY Fox3 carrier. The technological gap is way too strong. F14 IRIAF can also get yeeted to 13.7 for all I care, the Fakours are ridiculous.
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That being said, it would be nice if Bluefor had a decent counter for the Mig-23MLD which is somehow at 11.3.
Playing something like the Tornado Gr1 at 11.7 is a bit of a slog because there is no air cover from your team, its easier to play it in the 11.0-12.0 brackets or even the 11.7-12.7 brackets than the 10.7-11.7 brackets most of the time I find. Whether the F-4S is too strong for 11.7 is possible, but I do think Bluefor could do with some buffs for their existing aircraft in the 11.3-11.7 bracket or aircraft like the Mig-23MLD to move up.
there was - A-10C, but it got up
This is about SB not RB. If you are playing the F-4S in a bracket where you are fighting a fox-3 slinger like the Viggen DI, then that is your choice but shouldnt be considered for the purposes of balance. RB you need to consider +/- 1 but in SB, you only really need to consider +/- 0.3 because there is no random uptiers
I know this is a sim thread. The poster is complaining about the 12.0-13.0 matches in Sim, not the downtier matches.
In 11.0-12.0 matches, the F3 is by far the most dominant plane anyway. In 11.7 matches it’s the MLD, it’s just the nature of sim with fixed brackets.
But its not really a fighter. Its the slowest aircraft in the bracket and really only has 1 trick, force the target into a slow turn fight and then Aim-9M. Anyone paying attention can simply avoid them.
What is needed is for things like the Phantom F4E or FGR2 to be a bit better. Even something relatively simple like wing fuel tanks would be a lovely QoL buff for the FGR2.
But im still mad that the Sea Harrier FRS1 is the same BR as the Mig-23MLD
Fair enough, but the issue there is the lack of a 11.3-12.3 bracket for the minor uptier bracket
a lot of ppl just was going into 1 circle, using MLD
thats was just funny
Isn’t the IRIAF still 12.3 in Sim ? That would be absolutely horrible for the non US side. The only plane that can compete in that bracket is the Mirage 2000-S5 and it’s not always against the US.
Yeah, thankfully the average soviet player doesnt actually realise how to best use their aircraft, which is why they have a lower than average BR, if they did, they would be truly dangerous
It is, but likely because there is no 12.3 bracket at the moment, so its always at 12.7 anyway, but they’ve not really done a decent set of Sim BR changes since the decompress either, hopefully that will come in the next one, so I suspect it will change.
But the F-14As are tricky to balance, especially in Sim, their radars arent that great, they have weak RWRs, only rear-aspect IRs and limited CM counts. What makes them really deadly in RB is that everyoen takes off from the same location and flies in a very predictable manner, doesnt really happen as much in Sim. (not a BR i play a huge amount of, but most of the time I see the F-14s with SARH not the ARH missiles) Id personally be far more afraid of a well played Tornado F3, far better radar and far better RWR and you can easily outrun the M2Ks.
also, radar is worser in compare with F-4EJ kai for example
(gaijin when aspect switch)
M2000 are much faster on deck than the F3 in my experience. The F3 can barely stay supersonic while burning all of its fuel at a fast rate. M2000 are really fast mofos with excellent fuel efficiency.
I do use the F3 myself though, it’s definitely very dangerous in Sim. The entire avionic combined with the Supertemp is a deadly combo. In some sim 13.0 matches I use it over the Harrier FA2 whenever I’m tired of the FA2 lack of HUD (which I’m pretty sure is inaccurate) and it’s doing pretty well.
I don’t think the F14A deserves to go up, or at most by 0.3 BR. The Aim54A is not that dangerous, and very easy to outpull in sim. I’ve got moderate success using the B in Sim by using the 54C like Aim120-lite, but they’re also not that great and tends to only kill zombers.
The IRIAF tho… yeah no. Unless Gaijin decides to nerf Fakour to reasonable level, it’s simply way too fast and burn for too long. Even with all the shortcoming of the 14A, the missile is completely ridiculous and make the plane way too potent.
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Yeah, thats fair, but it is still tricky when you consider everything else, but ahistorical nerfs should be avoided (especially as I think they are current underperforming)
The key I think is that you just burn past themi in the F3, the M2K has to turn and bleeds a lot of speed but you just keep going in the F3 and they’ll never catch you, or at least not before you’ve gotten far enough away to not be worth chasing. But if I get an M2K ping, I either joust it or just turn and burn, usually I survive.
Yeah, I was excited for the FA2, but like the FRS1 still has the Gr3 HUD, Yes, its 100% wrong and like you, I just cant bring myself to play it with that placeholder. I just dont like dealing with the Mig-29Gs in the F3, those are annoying to fight. (and now also ICEs)
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I’m slowly grinding the US line for the AV8B+ (still three planes away, using F14B and F16C in turn to grind, but both being kinda out of meta is a bit of a pain), but I’m having decent success with the FA2.
It’s a fun plane to use IMO. I bring no gun at all however. Three Aim120 + 2 9M loadout and I rely on TWS to spot for me. If I’m unsure of where the target is, I just launch a 120 and follow the trail to launch a 9M lol.
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Yeah, sounds like the right tactics to use, But I really hope both the FRS1 and FA2 gets IRL HUDs soon. Will be a massive QoL boost for both
At the risk of beating a dead horse: I feel the McDonnell Douglas F-4S Phantom II is underdeveloped and weak for an 11.7 BR. The US Navy Fighter/Interceptor F-4J was replaced by F-14A Tomcats starting in 1974. 265 F-4Js were refurbished into F-4S and given to the US Marines who operated F-4S Phantoms until the F-18 Hornet replaced them in the early 1980s. The F-4J and F-4S Phantom II are both variants of the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II fighter jet, but they were designed for different roles and incorporated various upgrades. Here are the main differences between the two:
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Engine and Performance:
F-4J: Powered by two General Electric J79-GE-10 engines, each delivering a thrust of 17,900 pounds. The F-4S used two upgraded General Electric J79-GE-17A afterburning turbojet engines, each providing a thrust of 17,905 lbf of “Smokeless” thrust and had better thrust management, which enhanced its overall performance, especially at higher altitudes. -
Avionics:
F-4J: Equipped with older avionics systems, including the AN/APQ-120 radar, which provided decent air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities. F-4S: Featured updated avionics, including the AN/APQ-172 radar, which offered improved target acquisition and tracking capabilities, as well as enhanced electronic warfare systems. -
Wings:
F-4J: Had a fixed wing design without leading-edge flaps. The F-4S Incorporated USAF style leading-edge slats, which improved maneuverability at low speeds and enhanced performance during carrier operations. -
Armament:
F-4J typically armed with a combination of AIM-7E-2 and AIM-7F Sparrows and AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles, along with a 20mm M61 Vulcan cannon. The F-4S retained similar armament capabilities, however, it could carry newer and more advanced weapons systems, including laser-guided bombs and precision-guided munitions, plus newer AIM-7M Sparrows backed by AN/APQ-172 radar and AIM-9L Sidewinders. -
Operational Role:
F-4J: Primarily designed for fleet air defense and air superiority by the USN. F-4S could perform similar roles as the F-4J, however, it was also more versatile in ground attack and close air support missions due to its improved avionics and weapon systems. USMC Air is primarily for ground attack & close air support. -
Service History and Production:
F-4J introduced in the late 1960s, the F-4J was widely used by the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps during the Vietnam War. The F-4S was developed in the mid-1970s, the F-4S was essentially a modernization of the F-4J and was primarily used by the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Navy during the later stages of the Cold War.
Conclusion:
In summary, while both the F-4J and F-4S are variants of the Phantom II, the F-4S includes several upgrades that enhance its performance, avionics, and versatility, making it better suited for a wider range of combat roles. As the US Marines operated the F-4S into the 1980s, until they were replaced by F/A-18A Hornets, US Marine F-4S were equipped with AIM-7M and AIM-9L missiles backed by AN/APQ-172 radar.
Recently flew the F-4S against 12.7 BR aircraft and didn’t experience major issues. However, having AIM-9Ls in the arsenal would be nice. The Phantom shouldn’t be lowered below 12.0 - the MiG-23 is in too poor a state after all the nerfs to compete with it at that BR, it simply doesn’t belong there. So the only solution for Phantom owners is to ask the developers to give it AIM-9Ls.
