j7d absolutely MUST go up, j7e though…
i can see it go to 12.0, but only if it gets pl8
maybe it could become a funny irccm fighter at like 13.0 if it gets pl8b
completely and factually untrue, not that you even know anything about the draken
just stop pulling things out of your ass
I know it because i tested it multiple times (and tested it right now with wtrti) because I knew you were going to come crying about it.
At 900 IAS the f-5c does 25 deg/sec, and the draken does 28 deg/sec.
At 1000 ias the f-5c does 24 and the draken sustains 21 in a WIDER turn radius.
Meanwhile the F-5C at 600 IAS barely does 23deg at 660 ias with 422m turn radius, and the draken does 373 turn radius at 27 deg per second.
Summed up: A draken won’t rate fight an f-5c at super high speed, it will simply not engage. However at slow speed the draken will always have the upper hand.
Both Draken and F-5 have similar mach 0.99 speed retention. The draken has better acceleration across all airspeeds. The F-5C will rate better at 900 IAS but the draken yet again has all the privileges not to engage, while the f-5c has no privilege in this.
the f5 doesn’t need to dodge missiles because it has something very crucial that the j35d lacks…
So? J35D has no flares, mig19 has no flares and it had to deal with aim9j’s and r60s for a whole year before it got moved down to 9.3, stop victimizing yourself. The Hunter F6 also had no flares, the f-105 has no flares either, the f-1 has no flares either and all of those pale in comparison with the draken’s flight performance. F-5 having flares won’t stop it from doing the only thing it can: dogfighting. Third party it, if i can kill f-5c’s with aim9e’s while i’m arriving at the furball, so can you with better aim9j’s.
lol
to equal means to tie up, not that it has the same performance. Dora D9 and sea fury are equal in a duel, not because they perform the same. Sea Fury turns tighter and rolls better, dora has better flaps and more engine power.
About j35 v f5c, f-5c rating better means nothing, the su27sm has 32deg/second of turn rate at 770 IAS but a turn radius of 400m, whereas even if the f-18 has just 27deg/sec of turn rate it still has a 300m turn radius. It is of course going to gun down the su27 at some point.
I think this part is a needless appendage.
why did you bring up dodging aim9’s in the first place? i said the whole thing about flares not because im crying about the draken having none, but because the f5 doesn’t need to care about kinematically dodging ir missiles bc it has flares and a very cold heat signature
and the j35 has no chance at beating the j7e fair and square
i will do the tests myself once i get home, yours are wrong i believe
I don’t think that he tested sustained Turn rate but rather instantaneous turn rate
what did you even test? instantaneous turnrate? sustained? i didnt even think about what you were “testing” when i saw your post
if you were really testing instantaneous turnrate… well, i dont even understand your point then, instant turns dont really win 1v1’s
ive checked out sustained turn speed at around 600 IAS and around 900 IAS
the results are:
f-5a has a sustained rate of about 17-18 deg/s at 900 IAS and 16-17 at 600 IAS
j35d has a sustained rate of about 13-14 deg/s at 900 IAS and about the same at 600 IAS
oh yeah thats a good copout, just say that the planes biggest advantage (its incredible horizontal energy retention) is worthless!
what even has a meaning in dogfights then?
it will get slapped like a baby by an f5 that can actually keep speed while turning
btw remember what you were responding to:
you didnt even try responding to that, you just posted instant turn performance???
just so you know, the draken will lose 2 times more energy in that instant turn
(yes i know that f5 gained a bit of altitude, i accidentally pitched up a bit)
arguing with you is pretty much pointless, cus you constantly tell bullshit and dont back it up
i will now post the funniest thing youve said recently:
^this one is a classic at this point
true, i did not
sustained turn rate wise the f-5e is better
but the draken still turns a lot tighter.
It’s like saying “the spitfire outrates the zero”
so? the zero turns better lmao, don’t turn fight the zero.
what did you even test? instantaneous turnrate? sustained? i didnt even think about what you were
“testing” when i saw your post
I tested both, sustained and instantaneous. Sustained the f-5s are better than the draken, at slow speed they are not. Besides turning 100 meters wider.
if you were really testing instantaneous turnrate… well, i dont even understand your point then, instant turns dont really win 1v1’s
They literally do though, if you know how to keep the maximum time that speed at intervals by tapping negative elevator. It’s LITERALLY how the f-16a block 10 could win against the MiG29 in a 1v1 back then before the r27er was added. And this is how duelists do and where the “trim in sim” comes.
oh yeah thats a good copout, just say that the planes biggest advantage (its incredible horizontal energy retention) is worthless!
you don’t retain energy in f-5c below mach 0.89 unless you tap W.
it will get slapped like a baby by an f5 that can actually keep speed while turning
Where in this case the f-5 would need to turn with a 1000 meter radius and 22 deg/sec turn rate and the j35 would simply not engage, fly away and strike back, rinse and repeta, just like smart people do against zero players but I see you keep dying to them in faster props with better engines.
you didnt even try responding to that, you just posted instant turn performance???
just so you know, the draken will lose 2 times more energy in that instant turn
I do though? I’ve 1v1d my duelist friends in their draken with the f-5c and they always got my ass. The draken will lose 2 times more speed if you refuse to tap neg elevator. You simply never dueled in your life and it shows because literally the only thing you think about is that the plane that rates better while holding S will win the fight.
(yes i know that f5 gained a bit of altitude, i accidentally pitched up a bit)
arguing with you is pretty much pointless, cus you constantly tell bullshit and dont back it up
i will now post the funniest thing youve said recently:
Correction: I do 1v1s and somewhat manage instantaneous turn rate to have it the longest possible.
EDIT: Unless the draken has been nerfed once more in which said case I take back everything I said because i really haven’t died to a j35 in a dogfight since May 25. But I remember it used to slam the living hell of the mig19s.
i legit dont believe anything you say
enlighten me, how would i circumvent the drakens high drag airframe?
Out of curiosity, who are those duelist?
XD is this guy’s mind, me being good in the Harrier against the F-5 means I’m bad at fighting the Harrier in the F-5 😂
I think you don’t have any kind of basic reading skills.
You claimed that someone who struggles to fight against F-5 while flying Harriers has a skill issue.
(Which is blatantly false in a regular situation if we consider the flight characteristic difference between Harrier GR.3 and F-5C/E.)
And that was one of the reasons why you claimed that F-5 is one of the worst jets in War Thunder, which can’t beat anything but A-7 or Bucc.
So I asked the question to OP, who also claimed F-5 are weak. For nothing but just checking. :/
And unlike you, He is well aware that F-5 has good dogfighting ability itself.
You may be able to frag one or two F-5s while you are flying harriers, if the F-5 player has a serious skill issue.
But it won’t change the fact that Harrier GR.3 and other Harrier I equivalents have worse general flight characteristics than F-5 and will going to lose the majority of dogfights against F-5.
Harrier GR.3(AIM-9G) has a better missile than F-5A/C (AIM-9E), so if Harriers can easily beat F-5 down as you claimed, is there any reason that Harrier GR.3 stays lower BR than F-5A/C?
10/10 ragebait moment.
At least OP knew about the flight difference between them and suggested ‘you should’ve flown with fighter jets like MiG-21SMT instead’ :/
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
Man, I really can’t understand why the hell you’re spreading false information between F-5 and Harrier.
Harrier literally can’t beat F-5 in a dogfight unless Gaijin implements the IRL performance of Harrier into their FM.
Harriers can’t outrun F-5C because they are slower, so F-5C is the one who dictates whether to fight or not.
Harrier will not gonna outturn F-5C in the majority of combat situations.
Harriers may be caught off guard by using VIFF, but still, F-5C will have the dominant advantage over Harriers in most situations.
That is why Harrier GR.3 or American counterparts are staying 9.7BR, while F-5C is on 10.7BR, even though Harriers have way better missiles.
:/
harriers aren’t underperforming by much, especially the early harrier ones that are only missing around 1 degree or around .5 gs of sustained. it’s more that the f-5a is overperforming by more than 3!!! degrees sustained at some speeds and should lose a lot more speed in turns like a mig 21
Oh, Thanks for the correction, maybe my memories were concentrated more when Harrier didn’t have FM buff yet and was a missile bus.
But… Do the rest of my points still stand…?
yeah, including the dogfighting part. i was just pointing out its less of that the harrier’s fault and its more how egregious the f5 fm is
In terms of conventional FM. This is mostly correct I think.
In terms of VIFF based FM. Its got quite a few major buffs potentially in the works.
For example.
Angling the nozzles to 30° should instantly pitch the nose up by 20°. In game it does almost nothing
Likewise, when the nozzles are pushed forward. The decleration should be somehwere around 8ish x stronger than it currently is. Meaning you could force overshoots far easier. (Matrix has a source for this, though is highlighed in the source below as a legitemate tactic)
Sharkey Ward's Book
There are a few other issues with the FM as well, like I think we are still lacking a bit of thrust.
You are right though. In terms of the Harrier Vs F-5 fight. The F-5 is overperforming way more than the Harrier is probably underperforming.
But in terms of a 1v1 of say. FRS1e vs F-5C. (both 10.7 fighters). The other major issues would also include the lack of EEGS for the FRS1e and both aircrafts respective IR signature issues.
It can, I’ve done it multiple times in the AV-8C. I’m not spreading false information, you just for some reason don’t wanna admit that you’re bad at playing the Harrier, and I really don’t understand why.
iirc, it’s only the F-5E that has EEGS, not the C
The Sea Harrier FRS1e & FRS1 are currently missing EEGS. Was reported like 2 years ago
Would help a lot with the tricky nature of the 30mm ADENs