Not my point at all😭
Was operating strictly on a spite/disdain basis because an “11.7 F4S/J” is pure insanity, anyone suggesting that deserves to have it suffer in 13.0/13.3 lobbies like my beloved Tornado SLE does (rest in power tonka✊)
Now separately, and speaking in good faith I wouldn’t even be all that against the phantoms OP mentioned receiving the 9L and remaining 12.0, if no serious decompression happens.
More than anything Gaijin needs to do something about the sad state of the 11.7 to 13.7+ MM brackets.
your original point - send F-4J/S to 12.3 without loadout modification, if someone suggest F-4J/S 11.7, they need to face 13.3(operating strictly on a spite)
Separate take - if decompression never happens, give F-4J/S AIM-9L and maintain 12.0.
The problem is (in my experience), the F4J performs worse against planes of a lower BR too by a quite large margin. Give me a Mig-23MLD/MLA over an F4J any day. Sure, it doesn’t have HMD and it has less missiles, but the missiles it does have I prefer over the F4J/S.
I would argue in a good majority of situations it performs even worse than the JA37C, but that may just be my bias as it’s one of my favorite planes to play.
you are making it seems quite one-sided in favor of MiG-23, but the issue runs deeper than whenever R-24R is better missile than AIM-7F.
Beside the fact that F-4J/S can carry more SARH missiles (up to 6x if player chooses to), it arguably has much better radar solely due to fact that it has PD capability no matter the alt and no matter whenever it looks against ground or sky.
F-4J/S can control the engagement before the merge more easily than MiG-23.
The thing is that after the merge, the F4J no longer can really control anything due to its poor FM.
Sure, it’s radar and HMD is way better than whatever the Mig-23 has going on with its radar (that ACM mode is miserable to use), but it the moment you get past the first headon, the Mig-23 can fly loops around the F4J with its wings swept back. Not to mention being easily able to catch up to the F4 due to its higher top speed and thrust.
Do I think it should go down? Probably not. It isn’t in a great spot but it’s the philosophy of should it stay where it is and be meh or get down tiered and stomp appears once again (BR decompression please). If it got down tiered, it would fight planes like the F-104G or the Mirage 3E.
Sure, no contest there. But it seems that easy remedy to this would be to play F-4J/S at range.
Which is entirely doable.
Besides there does not need to be absolute parity in capability, aircrafts at same or similiar BRs can be balanced around different things.
Thing is if problem affects entire BR range then the problem can never be basis for buffing a single aircraft.
F-4J/S isnt sole aircraft suffering in uptiers, ergo it cannot be buffed solely due to this.
Spoiler
That is unlike arguing that the british phantoms, especially the F-4J(UK), should go down in BR because when compared to F-4J/S with which they share BR, they currently do not have access to long range SARHs.
AIM9L’s are unusable if opponent has flares these days. They need some flare resistance. R60’s are the opposite, you can have your throttle at zero and a dozen flares out the back while notching and it ignores all the flares and still hits your cold jet.
Dude I can be in rear aspect and 1000meters and AIM9L’s will still go for flares, I’m not joking. Meanwhile R60 ignores all flares, while I’m noting with zero throttle, it’s only because of this event I can tell how bad it is in the first place. It’s not a skill issue if R60 is easy mode and AIM9L is impossible mode for some weird reason. I’m grinding both nations for the event.
aim9l is 69420 times better than r60m not only because of its longer range but better success against flares. In game both seekers have SAME flare resistance values. BUT the difference is that 9L SEEKER FOV IS MUCH SMALLER THAN R60M SEEKER FOV. Hence most of the flares dont even come in the view of 9L, giving it a drastically better flare resistance. Please play both the missiles first before typing shit
Dude in the event both aim 9L and r60m have been harder to flare, this isnt something that only affects the r60m, and since they both share the exact same seeker sensitivity against flares they have been affected by the same amount.
I’m telling you for at least for the event it’s bugged. You’re either trolling me or it’s perfectly the opposite. I’m grinding both nations and comparing the results.
