@Stockholm_Blend
Kurnass 2000 and EJ Kai have been 12.3 for over 3 years, it’s basic information that they have AIM-9Ls to justify their BRs.
The fact you think people on the forum on average don’t know those vehicles exist is an insult to the playerbase.
F-4J already has AIM-9G/H.
He made the argument. IDK why you’re going to put explicit lies in your post when we can see his statement:
12.3:
and perhaps it shouldnt be, at least with the current extreme compression. Neither the F4EJ and Kurnass 2K are doing all that well at the moment
Unless you want to argue that an F-4 with 6x Python-3 = F-16 with 6x Python-3 and a lot more CMs
Well yeah, even with decompression that I demand, F-4J/S/FGR2/FG1 all stay 12.0 because they don’t have AIM-9Ls to move into the BRs of the all-aspect Phantoms.
F4s is also red spy from tf2
Though, imo, the F4s with 9Ls are fairly equally matched in performance to the Tornado ADVs. Which arent a problem at 12.0.
And the FGR2/FG1/F4JUNK should probably not be 12.0 because they lack an Aim-7F/M equivalent which is pretty much the only reason the F4J(US) and F-4S are actually at 12.0. PD + Aim-7F
Then there is also the Viggen Ds at 12.0, which again, debatable whether they are actually 12.0 worthy at the moment, especially with the state of BOL
Tornado ADV is only 12.0 because 13.0 is compressed, otherwise it too would be 12.3.
FGR2 and F-4J/S are equivalents. FGR2 has significantly better flight performance for an extremely marginally worse radar missile.
F-4J UK is the only one inferior to them.
The only way FGR2 moves down is if Mig-23MLD and F-4S move down with it.
Which is kinda my point.
I agree (providing the ADVs CMs got fixed), it should be 12.3 not 12.0 under ideal decompression, but with Gaijin actively increasing compression… maybe the Kurnass 2K and F4EJ should join the ADV at 12.0.
Its a marginally better FM and extra CMs for a significantly weaker SARH.
FGR2 = MLD imo and given they are literally the same performance/BR in SB… I dont think it would actually be unreasonable in ARB either.
Though perhaps the MLD should move up to 12.0
28% better flight model is not “marginal”.
And the only practical difference between Skyflash/E-2, and AIM-7F for engagements is the delay.
The only thing F-4J can do over FGR2 is high altitude BVR when already at altitude, but FGR2 is faster to altitude by half a minute.
FGR2 is superior to Mig-23MLD, IDK what Russian magazine you read, but it lied to you.
FGR2 is superior, don’t believe the Russians lying to you saying otherwise.
Mig-23MLD has an inferior radar, equivalent radar missiles while having less of them, and at best sidegrade IR missiles.
Skyflash DF has half the effective range of an Aim-7F/M
you do know that Skyflash DF is equal in performance to the Aim-7E2 right?
You do know Skyflash and E2 have equivalent performance right?
FGR2 gets to altitude half a minute faster than F-4J, so in practice F-4J isn’t going to do high altitude BVR cause it’s too slow.
Exactly, thank you for agreeing with me
Aim-7E-2 = Skyflash DF
Skyflash DF =/= Aim-7F/M/Skyflash ST
You do know that the RR engine only holds the advnatage at low alt and that at high alt the GE? engine is actually equal in performance
Also, it would be sucide to climb in the FGR2 given the constant uptiers. I only do it in the F3 because it has a decent RWR and Radar and a BVR missile with more than 10km of range
@Morvran
Glad you’re agreeing with me.
Argument closed. FGR2 is inferior to Mig-23MLD, and saying otherwise is Russian copium.
The engines are similar at high altitude:
FG1 gets to speed slightly faster than F-4J.
192 seconds for FG1 vs 198, and that’s not even accelerating at 8000 meters which FG1 will do better.
Thank you for agreeing with me, that the FGR2 holds no advantage over the F-4J in terms of high alt performance but has a missile with half the effective range
(using Skyflash ST as a rough equivalent to the Aim-7F, I routinely fire the ST at 15-20km. I rarely fire the Skyflash DF above 10)
@Morvran
Good, glad you agree FGR2 and F-4J can remain the same BR.
The only way either are changing BRs is if the higher BR one gets AIM-9Ls.
Or they give the FGR2 Skyflash STs
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/qDKeGlF2bDex
then they would have equal SARH performance and actually be better balanced at 12.0
Yes, I’ve stated that over a year, and you’ve come to that conclusion as well.
Is it possible you forgot I’ve been saying that as well?
The marginal increase in performance those Skyflashes give isn’t the massive increase AIM-9Ls give.
Imo… 9Ls really arent that good anymore. They havent been in well over 3 years.
They are only problematic at 10.3/10.7 because they can see things without flares.
At 12.0, everything it can see has flares. 9Ls are 1 flare defeat and pretty weak kinematically relatively speaking. 9Ls get placed on this wierd pedestal as if they are some how “OP” but they really aren’t. Id actually say 9Ls need a notable buff to their flare resistance (100% historically accurate btw) to maintain their current BR standing.
And if they truly are so OP, why arent aircraft like the F-111F with 6x 9Ls not at 12.0/12.3?
Assuming SEAD targets are added. Im seriously considering just running ALARM instead of 9Ls on those pylons on the Tornado GR1
That’s assuming people drop their afterburner.
But most people have grown complacent and don’t drop afterburners as much as they did years ago due to players shooting 9Ls in side and front aspect too often.
So I have an above 90% hit rate with my 9Ls due to that, even against Su-25s because they think they can flare late into 9L’s flight due to their experience from headon and side aspect shots, and aren’t use to rear aspect shots.
F-111F is inferior to F-111C for air RB for 1, and 2: Even Kurnass 2000 is a better platform than both Aardvarks for air RB, but F-111C is better when in lower player counts as F-111C is the best Aardvark in the game 2nd to none for fighting other aircraft.
F-111F doesn’t have the wingspan to do sustained dogfights, sadly. Proof that engine power doesn’t dictate how good an aircraft can dogfight.
He said “make F-4J 12.3”
Not “Add AIM-9L for make F-4J 12.3”
Yes, we all know that those are having AIM-9L/Python 3
Which isn’t F-4J/S.
Projection?
All he mentioned is
“F-4J needs to be 12.3 instead of 11.7”
He didn’t mentioned about adding AIM-9L or not at all.
So, it sounds more to ‘keep current loadout and just send them to 12.3’ than your take.
And you went full sacarstic, and twisted his arguement.
So, no. I didn’t lied about this situation and extremely frustrated about you framed me.
Between the pervalence of LCMs and the fact that heat sigs arent modeled at all… That barely matters 99% of the time. I think ive seen a 9L go for an Afterburning target over a single flare once in the past 2-3 years. If the target flares, the missile is defeated. 99.9999% of the time.
Players “flaring too late” is the worst excuse ive ever seen to why the 9L is “good”
