The F-15’s Current Performance in War Thunder Feels Incorrect and Unfair

[Flanker_Thunder]

@kevinuncle

When you look at public data, the F-15’s engines are listed at around 23,770 lbf, which converts to around 10,781 kgf. In War Thunder, the F-15 is only getting around 8,000, which means it is missing a little over 2,000 kgf of thrust.

did it say each engine?
btw, this is how it looks spaded

@kevinuncle

The F-15 in real life could climb almost vertically with enough fuel and weight balance. In War Thunder, trying to replicate that climb feels almost impossible

stop crying, pls

Google Drive: Sign-in

here u have ur goddamn heavier F-15E climbing from sea level to 16.490m at Mach 1.25 in less than 2mins, made by your favorite host, Flanker_Thunder!

@kevinuncle

I know there will be comments like “US players just want the best plane,” but that is not what I am asking for. I don’t want the best. I want the performance to be fair and closer to documented real-life capability.

then give Su-30SM2 it’s respective CM pods and MAW as it should be too.

@kevinuncle

At the moment, whether I fly the C variant or the E variant, Eurofighters can keep up with me in a climb, out dogfight me, and out missile me.

this is a joke, right?
Eurofighter is more modern than any F-15. it’s lighter, has more thrust, has different wing-type, it has better radar and RWR… it’s OBVIOUSLY better than the F-15 in any way.

@kevinuncle

Yes, eventually the F-15 will build up speed and start outrunning something in a straight line, but that isn’t much of an advantage when maps are small, and most engagements are already happening inside missile range and inside maneuver ranges.

this is a joke too, right?
one time i launched a R-27ER to a F-15E at ~15km and it was able of outrunning it, and R-27ER is made to hit targets over 100km thx to the INSANE thrust and top speed and amazing maneuverability.

@kevinuncle

and if the standard F-15C didn’t get constant uptiers, it would actually be a lot more enjoyable to play because you wouldn’t be thrown against Eurofighters and Rafales every match

bro absolutely doesn’t know what’s playing with F/A-18C Late at 14.0 with Mach 1 as max top speed and huge energy bleeding.

@kevinuncle

And while this isn’t the main topic, I want to mention that I hope the Super Hornet doesn’t get given to nations like the UK or Germany, because they already have the Eurofighter. In my opinion, they don’t need another top tier aircraft when they already have one of the strongest

sure, USA also shouldn’t get more jets, cuz they have one the best aircraft ingame that dominated back then when Fox-3s where a novelty and where merely present in each nation, u weren’t able of flying a german MiG-29G or a british Tornado without getting smacked by an AMRAAM coming from stratosphere.

@kevinuncle

I also don’t think China needs an Abrams when they already have their own MBTs

which are copy-paste russian tanks which suck.

@kevinuncle

yet Russia cannot get Ukraine in theirs

i’m pretty sure there’s a good reason to why Russia isn’t getting “ukrainian” vehicles…

@kevinuncle

I don’t want the F-15 to be unbeatable

from what u’re saying, it sounds like u want.
just grow up, bro, play the F-15 for fun and not cuz u want to have a good plane, if u want a good one u can go for Su-30SM2 or the mighty Eurofighter u’re complaining about, i can make u sure that it’s not too different from F-15.

@kevinuncle

and right now it does not feel fair

dw mate, soon u will get F-22 beating up old Su-30SM2 and Eurofighters cuz USA mains will be complaining about it fighting Su-57 which is “superior cuz it’s russian” in their minds.

i hope everything i have said helped u ;)

[An_Pigeon]

@PyroAddict

Easy ragebait

Ragebait cause I disagree with you?

the F15A’s huge leap in K/D and Win rate shows how it’s too good to be 12.7 lol

the mig29 radar is quite literally worse than the F15A radar lol, it’s not debatable it’s only advantage over F15A is the 2 R27ERs. In which it’s both extremely limited in use as well as have to manage the radar lock.

the 15A while having worse SARH missiles has 4 x Aim9m which you and I both know make R60Ms completely obsolete.
Hell 9L blows them out the water in most uses.

[Alpharius11348]

@An_Pigeon

the F15A’s huge leap in K/D and Win rate shows how it’s too good to be 12.7 lol

all it shows is that F15A does better at 12.7 than it did at 13.0

you know, exactly as anyone would predict due to how the BR system works

and its febuary stats show that its performance is in line with many other 12.7s (almost like 12.7 is the right br for it)

the F15A actually preformed worse than the F14A, which nobody is arguing should go up to 13.0

[Alpharius11348]

@An_Pigeon

only advantage over F15A is the 2 R27ERs. In which it’s both extremely limited in use as well as have to manage the radar lock.

ah yes, 2 practically free kills is not a major advantage

and you forget to mention F15A not having HMD when compared to mig 29

[kizvy]

Yeah but those r27ers are basically free kills while sparrows are some abysmal garbage.
Plus having radar auto switch to irst instead of losing lock + relock capability of r27er makes it super potent

[An_Pigeon]

@Alpharius11348

ah yes, 2 practically free kills is not a major advantage

against 4 aim9ms which are effectively 4 free kills?

@Alpharius11348

and you forget to mention F15A not having HMD when compared to mig 29

Not at all, the HMD was brought up earlier? or am I mixing two threads together.
The HMD on the Mig29 is more of a gimick than anything else but it is an advantage.

What should happen with the mig29 is lose the R27ERs which it never used, and actually get the R73s which it did use.

@kizvy

Yeah but those r27ers are basically free kills while sparrows are some abysmal garbage

Sparrows are not abysmal garbage lol, they’re not as good as R27ERs which no SARH actually is.
But they are not bad at all.
They are middling missiles.

[An_Pigeon]

@Alpharius11348

the F15A actually preformed worse than the F14A, which nobody is arguing should go up to 13.0

Yes it peformed worse due to compression the solution then is to move other planes up not move a strong one down.

@Alpharius11348

all it shows is that F15A does better at 12.7 than it did at 13.0

It’s KD has been non stop climbing since it moved down in BR mate.

which can literally be seen in the graphs from above from

@SerPounceAlot

ust look at these gra

here

just as a caveat I’ve been thoroughly enjoying using my F15A as well at 12.7 lol it will definitely move back up in BR

[Alpharius11348]

@An_Pigeon

against 4 aim9ms which are effectively 4 free kills?

wow, you really are rage bating here

@An_Pigeon

The HMD on the Mig29 is more of a gimick

it very much is not, it almost completely alleviates the radar issues you were complaining about earlier

@An_Pigeon

But they are not bad at all.

they are horribly inconsistent on how well they track a target, and often just decide to stop tracking from the smallest maneuvers
as well as being extremely easy to evade even in perfect launch conditions

its almost like they are pretty bad missiles for the br

@An_Pigeon

It’s KD has been non stop climbing since it moved down in BR mate.

which can literally be seen in the graphs from above from

you clearly dont understand those graphs, because that climb shown above is a single data point
and as makes since the February data did continue to climb because the earlier data point consisted of an average of pre br change and post br change data

[CmdrVince]

@An_Pigeon

the solution then is to move other planes up not move a strong one down.

Alpharius11348:

THis is logical. I don’t necessarily agree with every point of yours that I have been reading, but this is very much true. The F-15A is among the strongest 12.7s, but absolutely among the more mid 13.0s. It doesn’t fit at either BR (Su-33 compared to F-15A? Su-33 wins every day. compared to MiG-29? The F-15 should be top dog)

I will say that the 9Ms are very positional; in a full downtier, usually 2 kills if you can catch people off guard. In a full uptier, mostly a waste of space. Most of the kills I have gotten as of recently have been either gun or 7Ms, and even then Im generally using the 7Ms within roughly IR missile range (~4km)

[kizvy]

Icl I played f-15 and mig-29 recently and I vastly preferred the mig cause of the convenience of hmd and r27er. You really missing out when you don’t have those free kill sticks imo

[PyroAddict]

@Alpharius11348

wow, you really are rage bating here

I’ve been calling it for some threads now, the only thing Pigeon has only ever conceded on the F-15A/J/Baz as a weakness was its missile count at 13.0 (while at 12.7 is already a strong kit in numbers, it still heavily relies on its unreliable radar).

He’s been incapable to admit that the radar is really subpar, while even other players (which has been openly more critical of the plane without even playing it) have already made openings on the thought that maybe the plane isn’t as OP as they thought.

One of the big problems of the F-15A/J/Baz is that you end up fighting more with its radar than against your actual enemies, simple as.

[Flanker_Thunder]

@Alpharius11348

the F15A actually preformed worse than the F14A, which nobody is arguing should go up to 13.0

F-15A performing worse than the worst Fox-3 carrier is insanely WILD.

[Flanker_Thunder]

@Flanker_Thunder

here u have ur goddamn heavier F-15E climbing from sea level to 16.490m at Mach 1.25 in less than 2mins, made by your favorite host, Flanker_Thunder!

i could even say i would be able of reaching 25.000m if i start what i call “rocket climb” at 1000m, due to how “bad the F-15 is”.

i’m pretty sure Eurofighter or Rafale aren’t able of reaching that heights in rocket climb due to how they’re built (unstable design vs. stable design of the F-15).

[PyroAddict]

@Flanker_Thunder

F-15A performing worse than the worst Fox-3 carrier is insanely WILD.

‎ >“B-but the F-15A is OP! its the US main skill issue!”
‎ >checks inside
‎ >even the most half-assed 12.7 in the US tree without all aspect IR missiles outperforms the F-15A in both KpD and KpS (which shows how suboptimal its BVR actually is).
‎ >“B-but its good anyway! It has CMs!”

[Flanker_Thunder]

@PyroAddict

its the US main skill issue!”

@PyroAddict

B-but its good anyway! It has CMs!

[Flanker_Thunder]

@PyroAddict

“B-but the F-15A is OP! its the US main skill issue!”

wait a minute…THIS MEANS BMPT MAINS THAT DIE ON IT HAVE A RUSSIAN SKILL ISSUE, CUZ BMPT IS SUPERIOR TO ANYTHING IN THE BATTLEFIELD!

[Ion_492]

@Alpharius11348

(almost like 12.7 is the right br for it)

If it can be 12.7, it should lose its 9Ms. If it remains with its 9Ms, the Mirage 4K should be 12.7. If those are 12.7, the F-4EJ Kai should be 12.0. This then leads to the F-4S being 11.7, the F-4E being 11.0, and every 11.0 BR plane and lower needing to go down as well in order to keep some balance.

THIS IS RECOMPRESSION AND YOU ARE DEFENDING IT. Please I just want decompression without being insulted because I think a 4th gen with IRCCM missiles and not abysmal SARHs is OP at 12.7.

@CmdrVince

It doesn’t fit at either BR (Su-33 compared to F-15A? Su-33 wins every day. compared to MiG-29? The F-15 should be top dog)

Agreed, and I find it ridiculous how people are more willing to ask for a plane they play to move down, rather than actual decompression.

@An_Pigeon

What should happen with the mig29 is lose the R27ERs which it never used, and actually get the R73s which it did use.

Also agreed, because you’re entire kill potential being reliant on 2 not 100% reliable missiles and a mediocre radar is just a terrible experience.

@PyroAddict

He’s been incapable to admit that the radar is really subpar

Yes the radar is subpar, but it doesn’t need to be the best 12.7. It’s bad for the game to ask for recompression like this, and it’s bad for future balance because players will use these warped BRs to justify more OP planes.

@PyroAddict

its the US main skill issue!

If you are struggling at 12.7 you are an abysmal player, genuinely.

[PyroAddict]

@Ion_492

If it can be 12.7, it should lose its 9Ms. If it remains with its 9Ms, the Mirage 4K should be 12.7. If those are 12.7, the F-4EJ Kai should be 12.0.

I could really agree with this three, it’s not a huge domino effect drama.

Three planes are able to get interesting spots, I always complain on the F-15A getting battered and often uptiered related to its capabilities, but a meta Mirage 4000 is something that has basically never existed.

I would like to see it at least for one or two updates, ngl.

@Ion_492

THIS IS RECOMPRESSION AND YOU ARE DEFENDING IT.

Problem is, Gaijin has already not offered decompression to prove the decompression gang right neither on the January BR changes or this update, which throws concerns to be realistically read and applied up to may-june.

@Ion_492

Please I just want decompression without being insulted

And you can do so if your arguments make reasonable sense;

@Ion_492

because I think a 4th gen with IRCCM missiles and not abysmal SARHs is OP at 12.7.

Saying the F-15A is OP without even trying its radar or how it lands on an actual realistic game leaves a lot to be desired for someone so advocate for balance.

@Ion_492

If you are struggling at 12.7 you are an abysmal player, genuinely.

No one is debating about this point in particular, btw.

[Ion_492]

@PyroAddict

it’s not a huge domino effect drama.

If you want actual balance it should, because there should be no objectively better vehicles at the same BR (within reason).

[PyroAddict]

@Ion_492

there should be no objectively better vehicles at the same BR (within reason).

The Su-30SM2 is vastly better than the Rafale at long, medium and —under specific— at short distances, they both are at 14.7.

Logic says there should, reality is—and how Gaijin has been throwing stuff to the wall and hoping they stick—, it happens otherwise quite conclusively.