The Exaltation of the USSR and the Exaltation of Europe and the USA

[Mekvran]

@Redly34033

everyone recognizes Challengers as the worst tanks in the game (if this is your favorite tank, I deeply sympathize and do not want to offend you

Yep and the worse bit about, there are litterally dozens of bug reports in and have been for more than a year. No action has been taken. We;ve finally had some basic bugs like the turning fixed, but only after a premium version was added.

There isnt a single componet on the CR2s that hasnt been nerfed (heck. the 7.62mm MGs on the roof could be 12.7mm HMGs with 0 effort)

@Redly34033

won’t penetrate from 700 meters,

I’ve been penned plenty of times in the past in the turret, no idea if spall liners have helped much.

@Redly34033

what two years are you talking about?

The Challenger 2 has been in the game for more than 2 years and has underperformed the entire time. Spall liners could have been added at any point in those 2 years. Instead they were added after the T-90M was added.

@Redly34033

I don’t understand what half-armor you are talking about, but the turret of Challenger 2

Have a read through the bug reports yourself:

Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion

Legwolf’s detailed breakdown of issues: https://forum.warthunder.com/t/challenger-2-needs-to-be-brought-to-developers-attention/39168 Please check it out! Please let me know if there is any missed items / bug reports for this post Missing Features Missing Regenerative steering Bug List Challenger 2 Bugs: Mobility related Challenger 2 (All): Turning issue when at low speed (Fixed) Challenger 2 (All): Low speed Turning gearing issues (Fixed) Challenger 2 (All): Gears causing jerking and…

even basic things like roof armour is missing from the Challenger 2s,

@Redly34033

difficult to penetrate from a long distance,

Unfortunately they are systematically deleting all long range maps. All of my recent matches have been in CQB focused matches with no option for any form of long ranged combat. I reckon within 6 months, There will be no long ranged maps, only CQB.

@Redly34033

and it is not their fault that only a few countries have the resources to constantly develop their technology.

Again, I’d check out this thread:

Britain Air Tree - What's left to be added for all BRs

THIS IS A WIP LIST. If I have missed anything, then please do let me know and I’ll add it to this list There has been a recent and ongoing notion that Britain can’t get any more aircraft, because it simply doesn’t have any left to be added. This is untrue for every single BR in game, even top tier. For this list, I’m not going to list every single variant for every single aircraft, especially for those we already have, unless there is a notable exception. This list is mostly looking at new Bri…

Literally dozens of aircraft that could be added. and many could have been added at any point. The point is, just because US and USSR developed a lot of aircraft that were in the current 11.3-12.7 range. Doesnt mean that the other TTs couldnt get stuff in the BR1-11.3 range. So many iconic aircraft just… never added.

@Redly34033

Do they have data about the late Jaguar and others?

Yes, should have all they need.

SEPECAT Jaguar GR3A: Sharpening the claws

poll Hello everyone! Today i’m bringing on the suggestion of the SEPECAT Jaguar GR.3A Ground Attack Aircraft, operated by the Royal Air Force. [raf-jaguar-gr1] Operated until 2007 by No. 6 Squadron out of Lossiemouth, the Jaguar GR.3A provides a wealth of improvements to an already capable ground attack jet in the form of avionics, armament and engines overhauls to bring Jaguar up to modern battlefield standards. In the early 2000’s, Pre-existing Jaguar GR1A/B’s in the Royal Air Forces’ fleet…

Buccaneer S.2B

Etc etc.
(List of Previously Suggested Ideas - British Aircraft (Please Check Before Creating A New Suggestion!) - Great Britain - War Thunder - Official Forum)

Can all be added with relative ease, especially as they are modified versions of aircraft we already have, so not even fresh models

@Redly34033

I can’t believe we’re sitting here trying to prove whose tank is worse

Its just this:

As a Brit, I complain about the current state of the Challenger 2, even with plenty of bug reports proving stuff is wrong and the response is always the same: “Aim better”

But the same apparently doesnt hold true for those in T-80s/T-90s when fighting Leopards or Challenger 2s.

We are hopefully getting a dev-post for the Challenger 2 in the future, but this:

Spoiler

could be the reality of the situation

[AlvisWisla]

We have late Buc, Hunter, & Jag. The l
Hawk, Gnat, & other trainers weren’t focused on before last year so give that time.
Of course trainers aren’t gonna be any higher than 10.3 most of the time.

Challenger 2 also may underperform mechanically, but performance in-matches has been about the same as other tanks I’ve played.

[Mekvran]

@AlvisWisla

We have late Buc, Hunter, & Jag

We have the Buccanneer S2B with Aim-9Ls and Martels?

We have the Jaguar GR3A with upgraded engine, HMD and Aim-9Ls/ASRAAM?

We have a Hunter with better loadouts like the Hunter T8? or one with CMs like the Hunter FGA74BS?

@AlvisWisla

Hawk, Gnat, & other trainers weren’t focused on before last year so give that time.

The point is, the response i’ve always seen for why Britain hasnt gotten anything is: “they dont have anything to add”. But that isnt true. Hawk, Gnat, etc, could all have been added. Its irrelevant that they are only now going back and adding some trainers (maybe) with a BR range from 9.3-11.0. They could have come a while ago without much issue

[AlvisWisla]

Let’s be honest here, you don’t want a 10.0+ Buccaneer.
And Jag GR3 is indeed the other late Jag, GR1A is also one of the late Jags.
Britain’s been focused for top air and ground.
Now that Britain’s top air is secured they can focus on more nuanced things.

[Mekvran]

@AlvisWisla

Let’s be honest here, you don’t want a 10.0+ Buccaneer.

I would, at about 10.3 that would still be fun, especially in gamemodes like SB. Would have comparible performance to something like the A-10s, A6E, Su-25, etc

@AlvisWisla

Jag GR3 is indeed the other late Jag, GR1A is also one of the late Jags.

Jaguar Gr1 is literally the first Jaguar in service with the RAF. Gr1A (and technically the GR1B) we have is just an upgraded version of it. But I would not describe either as “late” versions of the Jaguar.

@AlvisWisla

Now that Britain’s top air is secured they can focus on more nuanced things.

And that has taken well over a year. Whilst yes, options have been limited on what they could have added. Not denying that fact. (though Gripen C could have come in September instead of 3 months after 12.3s were added) But the Tornados could have at least been finished.

[AlvisWisla]

Yes, and both are late Jags. Britain didn’t adopt Jags until the later ones.

[Mekvran]

Either way could have and would have made an interseting addition at any point in the past 18 months. Though I have a suspicion it will be our next Premium. Something to match aircraft like the Su-39/Torando WTD61 for a premium CAS

[AUSChalkWarrior]

“L27A1 lolpen’s BVM’s turret”
just lmao

[AlvisWisla]

Last I checked 3BM60/L27A1/DM43 is superior to DM23.

[ARK_BOI]

Go look at ariete that what lol pen looklike

[AlvisWisla]

I am aware.

[AUSChalkWarrior]

just ignore that the majority of the turret is visibly impenetrable in your own image, far from “lolpen” maybe you should learn what words mean before you use them
the Fv4005 is a better example of something being “lolpen”

[AlvisWisla]

The majority of the turrret is penned.
Yellow = L26 or higher pen needed.

[SatsuJ]

@Redly34033

say that NATO tanks are glorified because residents of Western countries in Europe and the USA will donate more to the game

They’re better in game because they’re better in real life.

Those are just facts.

[AUSChalkWarrior]

I like how you crop out most of the turret so that your point isn’t such an L but even your own post demonstrates that it isn’t “lolpen” like you claim

[AlvisWisla]

I didn’t crop out any part of the turret.
Inert portions of the turret exist on Leclerc & Abrams as well.

[_Lalo_Salamanca]

You only mentioned tank metas and ops, Challenger 2 and 3, Merkava 4 are the worst tanks. If people cry because of tank metas, it’s because these people have issues, and Gaijin should focus on nations that are weak, like Israel and the UK, at least in the top tier.

[AUSChalkWarrior]

at least you admit you used “lolpen” incorrectly and that the T-80BVM has a turret perfectly equivalent to most other top tiers

[AlvisWisla]

No it doesn’t. T-80B turret armor is far worse than Abrams, Leopard 2A5+, and T-90M turret armor.

[eqS729gYidXuT2BN]

My dude it does not matter if the R-27ER was a response to the AIM-7F/M because (as far as I know, these dates are correct) it literally entered service fourteen years after the AIM-7F and eight years after the AIM-7M, with the time reflecting the R-27ER’s increased capability.

If we were going to be fair about this chronologically, then:

• AIM-7F (1976) comes with the R-23R (1974)
• AIM-7M (1982) comes with the R-24R (1981)
• AIM-7P (1987) comes with R-27R (1987)
• AIM-120 (1991) comes with R-27ER (1990)

Now that’s obviously not looking at their stats at all, so looking at their stats (for sake of brevity, using wiki unless someone can guide me to official documents) it would more look like:

• AIM-7F added with R-24R
• AIM-7M added with R-27R, although it is arguably in the R-27R’s favor
• And that’s all that’s in game for US-based missiles, a ~kinda~ equivalent to the R-27R

I mean seriously, there are zero US radar missiles that go within 1.8M or 10G of the R-27ER, and that’s just supposed to be fine? Lol what?

Even if the AIM-7P was added it would only have better guidance electronics, so it would not change much. What the US needs is an equivalent to the R-27ER, which is the AIM-120A.

If the reason not to add the AIM-120A is “but it’s a Fox 3” then the R-27ER shouldn’t have been added since there would be no US-based equivalent.