The current state of ground top tier

So ive been playing a bit of US top tier ground, ive finished germany, russia and japan both air and ground and the only thing left was US ground.
I cant remember a more utterly dogsh*t experience anyone could ever have in this game.

To summarize my last 48-ish hours of US top tier, i think the best word would be disappointment.

The last update (HS) has really just hammered in the already massive problems in the game and made them that much worse.
This might seem as a rant but i genuinely think these are some points that are worth critiquing and are coming from someone who has played all 3 big nations and Japan at 12.0 and 12.7 a fair bit.
So, lets start with…

1.) CAS.
Ill preface this by saying that i do love playing CAS/CAP same as i love playing SPAA, i think they are a worthwhile addition to the game and shouldnt be straight up deleted from the game mode, but theres some pretty big issues…
Now if people want to cry about CAS and how bullshit it is and how it should get deleted from the game, theres plenty of threads for that, however as of right now, some changes have to be made.
The HS update has added another Kh38 carrier into the game, on its own it wouldnt be such a large problem except for the fact that is has none of the negatives of Su34 and doesnt even share SP pool with it, leading to what a lot of people experience as a back to back Kh38 spam.
Now before very vocal minority on these forums comes out and starts saying “but XYZ had mavericks since XXXX” the two missiles are incomparable in performance, to suggest otherwise is just plainly lying.
As of speaking pretty much every single match, playing USA, Germany or Japan, which sees Russia on the opposing team turns into a “how long until half the team dies to one person with 6 telephone poles” followed by 4 other people in the same jet with the same loadout.
This also leads to…

2.) SPAA
I love playing SPAAs, FlaRakRad despite its issues is probably my favourite SPAA from the ones i own to play. But in no circumstance is it comparable to the Pantsir, yet again a russian SPAA that is overperforming in SPAA duty compared to its contemporaries.
The “but SPAA is useless” argument is extremely poor, while yes, a good CAS player can deal even with Pantsirs, it becomes increasingly problematic while doing CAP against Su30/34 onslaught.
No other radar SPAA has such an oppressive presence ingame as the Pantsir, mainly due to the range it offers as well as the radar, being able to pick up munitions dropped or shot by the planes.
The general way of dealing with Pantsirs is to fly low and fire off bombs or missiles from close enough range where they cant intercept them.
The combination of the CAS as well as the best radar SPAA extending protection umbrella for both planes and tank ingame being tied to one nation tends to end up in an extremely uphill battle, be it on the ground or in the air when trying to counter russia.

3.) Maps
What also isnt helping the case is that the maps in Warthunder are extremely small, creating a funnel with limited flanking abilities, something a fair bit of light tanks require to do well.
Noone is necessarily suggesting that we need to have 16x16km maps but the maps should be bigger than they currently are. Off the top of my head, Abandoned Factory, Sweden, Abandoned Town, Hurtgen Forest, Alaska, etc. etc. are all maps that are obnoxiously small.

4.) The new turret basket
This new feature, for both the 10.7 leopards and abrams tanks all the way to 12.0s has been a disaster in general play. Abrams has already had a fair bit of problems with that massive weakspot from the front but this has really just hammered in the problem of getting hit anywhere (which is nearly unavoidable with the small maps) results in instantly crippled tank.
Ive said it during the dev feedback, ive said it during the Devs saying “were reducing the size”, this should have never been added or alternatively we should have been asked if we want it and should we vote yes then it should have been added to ALL TANKS AT ONCE.
Some people will say that “this is for giving russia autoloaders, bla bla bla” but again, those two things are like apples and oranges, you cant compare the two.

5.) Rendering
Weve probably all had this experience, youre looking at an angle, holding ground and then you get shot at from a tank thats not only completely silent but also wasnt visible at all to you.
Keen vision and Awareness as crew stats should just be gone, they are blatanly giving people advantage for something that should be the same for every player.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
These are just my suggestions but these could help tackle some of the underlying issues with the problems above.
1.) CAS
One of the best ways to lessen the impact of CAS is to increase the SP cost of A2G munitions. Last minihotfix increased the cost by ~70SP which is laughably nothing.
With how opressive CAS has the ability to be and how easy you can reduce and gain SP (scouting reduces 14% of the current cost per successful scout assist) making the spawn costs for a fully kitted out F15E/Su30/34/Rafale or even the typhoon be above 1000-1400SP (or around the cost that it now is for a backup) would certainly help.
It wouldnt eliminate planes from ground but it would make it that to bring a plane in you would have to do more than get 2 scout kill assists and maybe a cap to bring a full ground striker plane.
Additionaly as for the current problem of Kh38s, theres two easy fixes.
One is removing them from the game until stronger SPAAs on other nations are added that can deal with them, same way as Gaijin took out Grom-1s from the game as it was too game breaking. Option two is to take away their IOG from them. This means that tanks that are paying attention to the sky and smoke can actually survive the missile as it would self detonate, same as mavericks. As of right now, even when smoking the IOG on the missile still has the ability to kill a tank that smoked thanks to the explosive payload.

2.SPAA
The pantsir has an export variant of its missile that has 12km range. Instead of the current one, the export variant could be used until other nations get similar in range SPAAs where 95Ya6 will be comparable.
Ofc the next solution is to add new SPAA for other nations like SPYDER for israel, IRIS-T SL(M) for germany, NASAMS for sweden, Type 11 for japan, etc. etc.

3.) Maps
Expand existing maps, add more objectives than just 3, make sure to add cover. Gaijin has the ability of making an extremely cool mode or map where people can fight for more than just one small village.

4.) Basket
Please just get rid of it. Its quite literally a horrible addition that was added to only few tanks instead of them all, creating an unfair advantage for every other tank in that regard.

5.) Rendering
Make it be the same across the board for everyone, get rid of Keen Vision and Awareness as crew stats.

As of right now, top tier is genuinely probably the worst experience a person can have in this game.
Feel free to discuss your own experience in the comments, tho try to not derail it into insults.

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Can you image how much skill issues do these Su-34 and 30SM players have?
They die to my ADATS. They spawn at 16-18 km’s and they keep coming directly into my missile that can be dodged by moving a lil or my staying further than 10 km’s :).
Tbf i haven’t seen any NATO CAS players but i’m pretty sure that they have their fun with the Panstir

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Yea ive played a bit of the ADATS myself, the biggest advantage is that it doesnt alert RWR but with the recent change making your missiles be invisible to you so you dont know where they are past 2km makes guiding them a more annoying endeavour than previously.
The IRST sensor is still nearly useless at locking onto Kh38s, i think ive managed to lock on like once or twice in recent memory, both times when the missile was within 2km and approaching my frontal lobe at mach jesus

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++

It's funny to see how "Ground realistic battles" turn into "Air realistic battles"

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image_2025-03-29_12-06-41

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Q: In Ground Realistic Battles, top attack aircraft are capable of dominating ground vehicles for the most part. Are there any plans to do something about this in 2025?
A: According to our data, the balance at the top ranks of ground battles is noticeably shifted towards aviation and helicopters, and this balance has become even worse with the introduction of top aircraft this year. The situation where aircraft can attack tanks from a safe distance with impunity makes gameplay more boring for aviation and less fair for ground vehicles, a similar situation is with helicopters equipped with long-range fast ATGMs, or “fire-and-forget” ATGMs.

The developers say: “According to our data, the balance at the top ranks of ground battles is noticeably shifted towards aviation and helicopters” and do nothing to fix it.

This looks like some kind of mockery

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The giant ass turret baskets need to go yeah.

They said the damage model would be made smaller but it doesn’t seem to have happened. The most innocuous hits always seem to damage the turret drive.

CAS is broken, SPAA isn’t good enough. We all know it. It’s certainly not just a KH38 problem, however the KH38 just makes it glaringly obvious.

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The pilots can see and hear the incoming missile. I have tested that myself. All it takes it is just to jink a little 1-2 seconds before the missiles impacts

From my experience at top BR post-CAS changes:
Spawning CAS loses teams matches so I see far less men spawning CAS these days to prioritize winning.

Tanks can’t operate at 16km, so it makes zero sense to make maps 16 - 30 minutes to cross. 4x4km is enough for the upper end of tank maps. You could argue 5% of maps should be 5x5km due to record frags.

The only tanks missing baskets/autoloaders in the turret ring area are Merkava, Leclerc, Ariete, and Challenger 2; for all things considered, they’ve been added to every tank at once.

I oppose your post’s idea of getting rid of modeled autoloaders & baskets after they’ve been added, as well as oppose the idea that your post claims Merkava, Leclerc, Challenger 2, and Ariete have unfair advantage because their baskets are still being made.
Autoloaders and baskets are a more realistic representation of internal damage than not having them. If you don’t want your autoloader or basket damaged, I suggest playing more cautiously.

Gaijin is working on more SPAA which I support being added and have been begging for since December 2022.
I have no opinion on Keen Vision and Awareness personally.
And as for maps, diversity of size is required IMO. 2.5x2.5km should be 50% of top BR maps, with smaller and larger making up the rest of the 50%.

@MrKrabsPattys
It’s wild how much of a skill issue F-15E/Is have dying to Pantsir.

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it costs more to spawn a harrier with AGM 65 than to spawn a KH38 slinger. top tier is a joke

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Haven’t died to a panstir in a while indeed (except when i was fighting a sukhoi in my F/A-18 and the S1 killed me) but dying to an ADATS with far better missiles on your aircraft is another level of skill issue. I do agree that the skill issue is on both sides and the spaa’s can’t do nothing towards stopping CAS

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i agree all AAs are useless compared to pantsir, but pantsir is itself far from competent and CAS steamrolls everything whether there is a pantsir or not

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No it doesn’t…
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CAS players in general are the more grown version of the kid who says they didn’t actually feel it when you tag them at the playground.

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I agree
Its hell up here
Spawn in, get 2 kills
cap/wait
look kill feed
Su-30sm has eliminated your 3 teamates
panik*
dies to kh-38mt 2 seconds later
respawn in Lavad, violently murder Su-30sm with stingers
going to cap again
dies to kh-38mt from Su-34, FROM THE SAME GUY
Spawn in ADATS
sweats balls and kills him, kalm
He spawn in Ka-50
Kills him again
him: “insert bad russian word
leave and refuse to elaborate”
Actual things happen to me

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Yes it doesnt but if u actually look closer its 70 sp difference xDDDD. Its almost like nothing. Comparing harrier to su34 is just fkn absurd

@bertgame
Glad you agree, either way CAS remains OP and equally stupidly hard to spawn compared to 3 more tanks.

I actually like this feature, the crew is no longer just floating inside a void exposed to spall, in my experience I witnessed an Abrams absorb side on center mass shots, the basket was destroyed and it was absorbing spall.

Either way, everything laid out by OP is true, the game really needs to step up to accommodate top tier gameplay, ground forces hasn’t changed in almost a decade, new more advanced technology will continue to worsen the game if nothing is done about it.

Gayjin should make kh38 1000+ or 1100+ minimum. Spawn cost is sooooo stupid rn if looking at different planes

Spawn cost is fine cause if you spawn CAS you’re removing a player from your team faster than if you spawn more tanks.

WHAT? The problem is how stupid sp cost difference is when it comes to actual missiles/platforms

For example my a10c is 70sp cheaper. Its just pure stupidity on gayjin side

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