it was either op or invisible spall that wasn’t rendered. you pick
It has a soft cap shell, which likes to bounce off the slightest angles
Just fix the Penetration
75mm KwK40 L/48
PzGr.39 APCBC (6.8kg at 770m/s)
143mm @ 0m (0 degrees)
55mm @ 0m (60 Degrees)
Type 5 75mm
Tokku Kou APHE (6.615kg at 850m/s)
161mm @ 0m (0 Degrees)
70mm @ 0m (60 Degrees)
Chi-Nu II gun would have 12.6% penetration advantage at 0 degrees over Panzer IV H
Chi-Nu II gun would have 27.3% penetration advanatge at 60 degrees over Panzer IV H
You can also reduce the reload speed from 6.5 seconds to 5.9 seconds like everyone else has for their 75-76.2mm guns except japan
The ricochet chance can make the tank absolutely infuriating to play. I’ve been on higher ground compared to a M4A2 and still bounced off its front plate when I hit it dead in the center.
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It has trouble engaging some tanks with only 151mm of penetration and it became worse due to volumetric. It used to be 153mm then they nerfed but this was before Volumetric was added and honestly if the Type-II 75 mm still had 153mm it would perform phenomenally at 4.3, would still have problems but it would able to actually engage certain vehicles frontally.
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Actually i have noticed that for some bizzare reason the AP shells are modelled to bounce 50% of the time at 60 degrees which is utter BS. Dont know where gaijin pulled that figure from. Especially when APCR needs 70 degree angle to have 50% chance of bounce. It makes no sense.
AP at 1.0 T/D ratio has 2.69 slope modifier at 60 degrees
Which means that when it penetrates 100mm LOS at 0 degrees, it defeats 72mm LOS at 60 degrees.
It means that when it strikes armour at 60 degrees, it denormalises to 68.3 degrees.
APCR at 1.0 T/D ratio has ~4.20 slope modifier at 60 degrees
Which means when it penetrates 100mm LOS at 0 degrees, it defeats 47.5mm LOS at 60 degrees
It means that when it strikes armour at 60 degrees, it denormalises to 76.2 degrees
So APCR which denormalises to 76.2 degrees from 60 degrees has very little chance of bounce
But my AP rounds which denormalise to 68.3 degrees from 60 degrees will bounce 50% of the time? what is this crap gaijin?
Here is simulation of 120mm AP with ballistic windshield completely destroying 100mm thick plate at 65 degrees, whilst in WT, AP rounds have 100% chance of bounce at 65 degrees
Type 5 75mm
Tokku Kou AP (6.615kg at 850m/s)
161mm @ 0m (0)
70mm @ 0m (60)
59mm @ 0m (65)
T-34-85 would have to add 32.5 degrees horizontal angle on top of its 60 degree vertical plate to achieve compound angle of 65 degrees and even then its 45mm thick armour wouldnt stand a chance vs 59mm penetrarion.
Should be 161mm tho, but if they fixed angled pen, the penetration would also decrease less as angle increases.
You do not provide any proof that it could penetrate up to 161mm of armor so no it’s not gonna happen. it’s he said vs historical documents. I’m not a mod but once you play wt long enough you realize they need a lot of information to prove that it existed, and or could penetrate up to the said millimeters.
Heres the Thing
2 Pounder AP (40mm, 1.08kg penetrator at 792m/s)
Could penetrate 90mm of armour when the round didnt deform at all
If Tokku Kou AP at 850m/s didnt deform at all, it would penetrate 185mm of RHA armour.
Literally penetration power on par with the panther and 17 pounder apcbc rounds at point blank range.
According to Japan’s national archives, the round could defeat 200mm of soft cast armour
However 161mm @ 0m is when the Tokku Kou round does deform against RHA but its always random how much a shell will deform. So I used the known fact that the round from Type 3 75mm at 500 yards had 100mm of penetration after deforming and calculated the penetration at 850m/s.
Tokku Kou defeats 185mm at 0 degrees when it doesnt deform, and 161mm when it does deform (but they do most of the time)
As the angle increases deformation doesnt occur since the tip doesnt take the main blunt of the force but rather the side structure and we can see this on T33 APBC penetration graph where the round has abysmal 0 degree performance but phenomenal performance at 55 degrees.
AP Slope Modifiers from WWII ballistics
Since AP doesnt deform at 60 degrees, we will use the 0 value when the round doesnt deform as well to calculate its sloped penetration.
70mm thick armour / 75mm diameter shell = 0.933 T/D ratio
0.933 T/D Ratio at 60 degrees = 2.66 Slope Modifier
When 75mm AP defeats 69.6mm at 60 degrees of armour, the penetration at 0 degrees is 185mm
So Tokku Kou AP on Chi-Nu II would defeat 70mm (rounded up) of armour at 60 degrees at point blank range.
Panther has 80mm at 55 degrees upper plate.
80mm thick plate / 75mm diameter shell = 1.0666 T/D ratio
1.06666 T/D ratio at 55 degrees = 2.18 Slope Modiier
80mm x 2.18 = 174mm
75mm Tokku Kou AP would only need 174mm penetration at 0 degrees to penetrate Panther Upper plate and as you saw, it has 185mm at 0 degrees when it doesnt deform and at 55 degrees, AP rounds dont deform. So fixed Chi-Nu II should be able to clap Panther upper plate armour under ideal angle conditions at close distances.
So instead of reducing BR of a tank that should have enough penetration to clap panther upper plate to 4.0, why not fix the tank instead.
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Just to prove im not making this crap up
Using 2 Pounder AP again as reference
T33 APBC which is a 10.61kg penetrator + 0.30kg windshield
Would have 215mm penetration if it didnt deform.
M77 AP had 191mm @ 0m penetration at 822m/s after it deformed
T33 APBC is M77 AP penetrator with windshield but since the penetrator was reheated, its quality suffered and was more prone to deforming causing it to have only 165mm penetration at 853m/s despite being same penetrator as M77 AP at higher velocity.
So T33 APBC has 215mm penetration if it didnt deform but it achives 165mm at 0 degrees when it deforms
The graph from terminal ballistics volume III shows us that the T33 APBC can penetrate 97mm of armour at 55 degrees at 0m (2800ft/s or 853m/s)
Since AP doesnt deform at 55 degrees, the 0 value of 215mm at 0 degrees when it doesnt deform should be applied as well.
97mm thick plate / 90mm shell diameter = 1.078 T/D ratio
1.078 T/D ratio at 55 degrees = 2.186 Slope Modifier
97mm x 2.186 = 212mm at 0 degrees
AP After Fix
M77 AP (822m/s) - T25 Medium
78mm @ 0m (60)
T33 APBC (853m/s) - M26 Pershing
81mm @ 0m (60)
Tokku Kou AP (850m/s) - Chi-Nu II
70mm @ 0m (60)
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You now this is pointless cause Gaijin uses the Demarre formula to determine pen in game.
You think this isnt demarre equation? This is demarre equation
You use a 40mm that’s British as a reference to base your calculations on that, which entirely invalidates everything you did. Japanese rounds are not British, if that isn’t obvious, that means they have different weights and measurements as well. That includes if it is a full solid round or not. Most Japanese rounds are filler rounds so using an AP round to calculate an APHE makes little to no sense.
You should probably also consider that at this point all your doing is ranting than truly giving constructive criticism and actual proof of said rounds penetration.
That and honestly someone from the Gaijin staff should probably lock this discussion although not my call just a suggestion.
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All you do is deduct the explosive filler of the shell which then will give you solely the penetrator weight
But 75mm Tokku Kou in real life had neglegable ~10g of explosives
I feel like solely deducting the explosive filler mass isn’t the best solution.
After all, having a cavity in the penetrator for the explosive filler does mean that it loses overall structural integrity when hitting armor.
10 grams inside 75mm does nothing furthermore gaijins calculator over nerfs shells with high HE filler to the point the value is far too low relative to sources
The weight of the filler means nothing, the important part is the volume it takes up that otherwise would be replaced by steel, specially since explosive fillers in general are quite a bit less dense than steel so the same weight of explosive filler will take up more space than the same weight of steel.
For example, Pzgr.39/42 has only 17 grams of H.10 filler, yet a decent portion of the projectile is taken up by those meager 17 grams.
Could you provide examples?
So this is the Type 96 15cm gun which would be used on O-I Super Heavy
It was also a field gun
The 15cm APHE was rated to penetrate 125mm @ 250m according to the U.S.
It has a huge HE filler of 2.3kg
But because the filler is so huge
Gaijins calculator rates it 92mm penetration at point blank range
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4.0 at least. But more like 3.7 since its basically the same like german 3.3 Panzer IV. Ausf. G. only Chi-nu II has worse armour, speed, reload and its bigger and taller target. While all that it has is slightly better gun with only 12-14 mm extra of penetration - depens on ammo (but i mean its premium so it should have something extra). And Chi-Nu I should be 3.0.
Same with all low to mid tier japanese tanks where japan suffers the moust. Chi-ha kai got uptiered, Chi-tos and Chi-ri, Ho-Ri (its 7.3 while Jagtiger is 6.7 like bruh). And when something cool or interesting gets added is only like event or premium. While they add shitty american stuff as normal researches insted.
Then devs say it was limited production or just paper desing… just look at russian navy if you want to see paper tech tree… and they plan on adding more of those in russian navy. But when it comes to japanese navy. They add cruisers from exact years when they did not have float planes (IJN Tone, IJN Aoba) with them even so they used them of moust of their service (those are only cruisers that are missing float planes while they had them and used them in history out of all nations from what I checked)
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That’s your first mistake.
In RB, it’s well suited in the BR it’s in.
Play it slow and calculative. It’s an extremely good sniper that can even frontally kill KV-1 at a decent range if you hit squarely in the flat front.
Not to mention it’s easy to aim with as well since it has a very high velocity.
Just remember that it is a “glass cannon”.
Do not fight a head-on assault and minimise the chance of enemy return fire.