this is the state of battles at 12.0 in ARB. it’s really crap, a total brawl, in a map (spain small version) that is unsuitable for that BR, where I can literally take off put TWS shoot my R27ER or in the case of an F14 the AIM-54s and have a good chance of doing one or more kills, if we then add that I was in dowtier the match was over in 4 and a half minutes. now I put myself in the shoes of those who were on the other team, and I wonder why gaijin brought the game to these conditions. it’s literally crap, 0 tactics, 0 teamwork, just a pointless brawl in the center of the map that’s been going on for too many years, and gaijin doesn’t seem to care about revamping the game mode that made this game great. it’s time they created an endurance mode, where the only way to win is to complete objectives, on large maps, encouraging teamwork, and finally making attack planes and bombers playable again, and where the fighters are planes that support those who have to go and bomb the targets, and not that the fighters are the means with which to make as many kills as possible in the shortest possible time, and transform a game that should be a team game into an individual game, which makes games last less than 5 minutes, because that mode already exists and is called ARCADE
+1
I have abandoned top tier air and I refuse to play anything above 11.3 until this is properly adressed. The 16v16 mode designed for piston fighters on medium sized maps has clearly proven to be unsuitable for jets with missiles that can be launched 30km out. We either need shrinking teams or sim-sized maps with MULTIPLE respawn points
Its very sad how top tier is, concidering the goal of grinding is to get to top tier, bit of an anti climax. I now play sim
Drop the tags. That alone will cut the clustered feel significantly. To have tags in air realistic but not ground realistic is to suggest air realistic players are significantly less competent than ground realistic players.
That is verifiable undeniable hand holding. End it.
Occasionally there are full air sim battles at top tier and even so they don’t feel clustered.
and thats why I play air sim these days. Highest i’ll typically go in ARB is 5.7 unless im squadding up with a flight of Tornado F3s. The maps are just to small and the games too short to have any meaningful fun
Tbh ground rb at top tier isn’t in a much better state
I don’t remember top tier to have been in a better state. I avoid top tier air/tank until it isn’t top tier any longer.
I also started playing in simulation, just yesterday, because I was exasperated by the disgusting ARB. I find the sim very beautiful, and I think that ARB should be exactly like the sim, with the view inside the cabin but with simpler controls, and I think that this alone would help to promote skill and stop the furball in the center of the map
Do you have any evidence for this assumption?
Whilst awaiting your reply a few things to think about:
What is more likely?
- A) 16 vs 16 is created to accelerate snow-ball effects (so to shorten the average match duration) leading to 8 vs 2 or 2 vs 8 after after a few minutes and therefore minimizing the impact of actual skill whilst playing 2 vs 8 just based on random team set-up / lobbies.
- B) 16 vs 16 is created to support experienced players in order to allow them even more kills - and to give them opportunity to turn around almost lost matches (like 2 vs 8 in a ticket disadvantage) just based on their skill advantage.
So in other words:
Is 16 vs 16 designed to make actual skill less decisive or not?
Imho the answer is obvious…
Imho you might consider to revisit the definitions of game modes in order to see why markers are not the decisive differences between Ground RB and Air RB.
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Category:Game_modes#Realistic_Battles
Although irl the impact of attacking enemies undectected has similar results of fights between tanks and aircraft amongst each other, the difference of markers between Ground and Air RB has other reasons.
Imho there is no difference between competence levels between modes as both modes are dominated by tankers, pure pilots became a rather rare view in Air RB.
WT is generally seen a plain shooter, so playing an Air AB+ (called Air RB) with more realistic FMs, limited ammo, etc.is designed around the usage of mouse aim, allowing players to participate in aerial warfare without the necessary skill or tools (like a joystick) just by point and click with a mouse.
That is the main reason why wt in general (outside Sim) is highly attractive for new players grown up with FPS games - those players don’t care about the mode.
Although i share most of your general view on things - and you are obviously a passionate pilot too - imho you might consider that the main audience of wt (=where they generate the most income) plays wt for other reason than the passion of flying.
Therefore markers fulfil the same purpose than in every other shooter - showing a target.
In addition - a real sim fan would not consider to fly in Air RB as the challenge (& resulting fun) to fly in sim is based on high realism/accuracy.
The main reason for the success of Air AB & Air RB is the rather low skill requirement to control an aircraft with mouse aim whilst flying in 3rd person view and the necessity for Ground players to fly there - either to gain income to continue playing Ground or to research & spade aircraft which they can use in Ground modes as a kind of power-up.
So increasing complexity and skill requirements to fly is from a pure pilot perspective a desired goal - but gaijin would sacrifice the needs and requirements of their main audience. Highly unlikely this will happen.
But even in case that my views on things are completely wrong:
You might consider that the main purpose of cheating in shooter video games is to get a spotting advantage in order to use an aiming advantage. That is imho the main reason why cheaters are (at least from my pov) rather absent in Air RB - the implemented markers makes such cheats rather useless.
As soon if you invest some time reading Air SB threads you will find indicators that there are some suspicious pilots active there - able to spot you across the map (ofc without radar) whilst you hug trees in a corner of a map…
Yes, I know about this and unfortunately I have suspected it at times, but in general it is manageable if you know how to use the radar.
they made it like this over time, and it’s gaijin’s fault that they lowered the general level, making the ARB literally an Arcade. yes I love simulation, but I play ARB because it is the mode I have flown with since the beginning, and because it had its own balance between simulation and simplicity in managing a plane with mouse and keyboard, which in sim you need at least a controller , although it is possible with all its limitations to fly with the mouse. what makes me angry is that gaijin is its own worst enemy, it is demolishing the soul of this game more and more every year, for profit, encouraging quantity rather than quality, why is it now up to ARB to say that it is realistic it’s literally a joke to the consumer, why should they rename the arcade to AirFPS or Air shoot shoot, and ARB they can rename it Arcade.